Blah Blah Cafe, the Jean-Michel Jarre forum

[Jarrepeggiator]

This is an interesting topic that I thought we could discuss!

My personal opinion is that the ironic thing about Jean-Michel Jarre is that in a weird way, he is criticized by some fans for "trying to be too modern", BECAUSE in a certain way, he is actually very much old school:

Our culture, especially art is currently totally lost in retro, in nostalgia, glorfying old movies, old music, "those old times", there are endles remakes, sequels,, artists playing it safe by going for cheap references and connections to old stuff, recreating the old things to create a weaker imitation, going for the safe money, cheap clicks and also, the bleak, nihilistic view of the future, the predictions of a dytopian future regardless of political ideology, being scared of technology and new inventions. People no longer believe in futurism and the world developing in a positive way, or that science and art are making the world better.

Jean-Michel Jarre grew up in the 1950s and 1960s, he was a 20 year old student in 1968. He grew up with the idea that the future is exciting, technology can help us and that you're supposed to move along with the times, embracing new things. He grew up in the era of sending the first human into space and Moon landing, in the era of 2001: A Space Odyssey and the original Star Trek show. In a time, when people generally did have an optimistic outlook the future after the ending of the dark reality of WWII.

I honestly think that this is truly behind his tendency to embrace new things, trying to understand the new waves in culture and technology. This is why he did believe in the 1960s that electronic music is the future of music, this is why he kept using the latest instruments, also in the 1970s and 1980s, this is why he was not afraid to be influenced by the latest styles of that time. And he kept doing it in every decade, in the 1990s he used the sounds of the 90s and even today, in the 2020s, he aiming for innovation. And the hot topics of our era are the AI and VR stuff that some of you don't like or the Oxymore-like 360 degree experimentalism. It's like he just doesn't care that we are now supposed to like retro.

Which is why some people are so angry at him, because he was actually a star in those times, he was supposed to be a leader in this nostalgia train, someone who makes those good old nostalgic sounds again, someone who was there in 1970s or 1980s, he is supposed to be retro escapism from the modern sound. Him embracing the new technology feels like betrayal to some older people. Some people even said that Jarre is trying to "appear young", because that's how he wants to stay popular or relevant... but look at the 1970s artists, they are very popular today. People love Kraftwerk today and the endless young nostlagia artists like Madis, because they expect them to sound like 50 years ago, they want to get their nostalgia and these people are giving them what they want.

Jarre is not "trying to be popular", on the contrary: it's like nobody told him that today, you're supposed to be retro to be liked. He still believes in the 1960s/1970s idea of a positive future, the positive possibilities of A.I., he still believes that the new instruments, new softwares are what people like, what keeps that interested, that people still believe in new technology. He is still trying everything to move Western culture forward instead of backwards. Is he doing it in the right way? I don't know, but it's clear that this is his intention. He is still out there, trying to create instead of doing a kind of demonstation of how good the old times were in the name of art.

So what do you think?

[Jarrepeggiator]

Do you think that's where Jarre is coming from on these issues?

[Dr_Jones]

Oh yes, these are fair points.

I know there's criticism for what he says about AI and him embracing it. I am not happy with AI myself either.
In the past, he embraced lots of things that were criticized too and turned out successful. Others, not so much.

[Jarrepeggiator]

Oh yes, these are fair points.

I know there's criticism for what he says about AI and him embracing it. I am not happy with AI myself either.
In the past, he embraced lots of things that were criticized too and turned out successful. Others, not so much.

In a weird way, I think the audience / fans / people ended up like the boy who cried wolf. Because Jarre is a 76 year old man, who kept facing the same criticism for literally 6 (!) decades.
In Jarre's mind, no matter how you argue, embracing VR or AI is not different than embracing - for example - the Fairlight CMI. Why? Because he was the guy who wanted to perform electronic music in 1971, and I repeat, in 1971(!!!), to perform AOR in the opera house and the musicians there kept unplugging his stuff to sabotage the concert, because they were so afraid that the skills of "real musicians" won't be needed. And then, he became a huge star with that music. This man kept being criticised for embracing the lastest instruments or styles for 6 decades, the first reactions to Zoolook were negative, etc.
So even if AI is an actual threat, he is not going to believe it, not after seeing tha same pattern, experiencing the same again and again. When he sees the anti-AI comments about how we should reject a technology, he just thinks "not this again". He kept embracing the new stuff all the time, in every single decade, I don't think he will change now, at 76.

[Herr Dunkel]

JMJ's use of new technology as it comes along stems from his very nature: He's not into nostalgia (he has said it many times, especially in recent years), and he also likes to do things differently (from what he did before, and from others).

About nostalgia, many times he has said that he was more interested in what he was currently doing than in what he had previously done, and as such using current tools makes sense, not necessarily because "they are the future", but because "they are of the times". In his career he has sometimes looked back (e.g. compilations, or the Oxygène trilogy), but typically compilations are proposed by record companies so he has to be involved a bit (his take on the Planet Jarre compilation was interesting and a bit different from your typical "best of"). But even Oxygène 7-13 was presented as a continuation of Oxygène (not redoing the same thing), with the tools and musical styles of the 90s. Oxygène 3 was an "afterthought" in that he didn't think about celebrating the 40th anniversary of Oxygène, but Sony did. I assume the original idea from Sony was to re-re-re-re-release Oxygène, but as JMJ had a bit of time after the Electronica project (and probably a lot of elements left unused such as the basis for Oxygène 19) and between the summer and fall concerts of the tour) he thought that he could try and do a new album in a short period of time (similar to short period of recording the first Oxygène) with the tools of the day - mid-2010s. That's why Oxygène 3 doesn't sound like Oxygène per se (not much Eminent, VCS3 or wind noises) like nostalgia would have required, but keeps the spirit of Oxygène, with a few simple tunes and a minimal number of tracks per piece, with layered sounds.

About doing things differently, mainly with the use of instruments, one early example is the combination of sounds on the Minipops to get a "new" rhythm. Also in the mid-eighties, when everyone in pop music was using the DX-7 he used the much less known Synthex, when the period would have called for using the DX-7 on Rendez-Vous for example. (The fact that JMJ doesn't like the DX-7 is another reason, of course.) One funny thing was a comment from Joachim Garraud when he did a little interview of JMJ during rehearsals in Stuttgart during the <2010> tour. At some point JMJ said that at his age bands were doing farewell tours but he was doing a "newbie tour" and Garraud said "Jean-Michel never does things like everyone else." That was a joke but as he has worked closely with JMJ on many projects, his comment came from his experience in general, not only from what JMJ had just said. In various interviews in recent years JMJ was asked whether he was optimistic (about the future), and his response was "these days, almost in a subverting way, one has to be optimistic".

[Jarrepeggiator]

JMJ's use of new technology as it comes along stems from his very nature: He's not into nostalgia (he has said it many times, especially in recent years), and he also likes to do things differently (from what he did before, and from others).

About nostalgia, many times he has said that he was more interested in what he was currently doing than in what he had previously done, and as such using current tools makes sense, not necessarily because "they are the future", but because "they are of the times". In his career he has sometimes looked back (e.g. compilations, or the Oxygène trilogy), but typically compilations are proposed by record companies so he has to be involved a bit (his take on the Planet Jarre compilation was interesting and a bit different from your typical "best of"). But even Oxygène 7-13 was presented as a continuation of Oxygène (not redoing the same thing), with the tools and musical styles of the 90s. Oxygène 3 was an "afterthought" in that he didn't think about celebrating the 40th anniversary of Oxygène, but Sony did. I assume the original idea from Sony was to re-re-re-re-release Oxygène, but as JMJ had a bit of time after the Electronica project (and probably a lot of elements left unused such as the basis for Oxygène 19) and between the summer and fall concerts of the tour) he thought that he could try and do a new album in a short period of time (similar to short period of recording the first Oxygène) with the tools of the day - mid-2010s. That's why Oxygène 3 doesn't sound like Oxygène per se (not much Eminent, VCS3 or wind noises) like nostalgia would have required, but keeps the spirit of Oxygène, with a few simple tunes and a minimal number of tracks per piece, with layered sounds.

About doing things differently, mainly with the use of instruments, one early example is the combination of sounds on the Minipops to get a "new" rhythm. Also in the mid-eighties, when everyone in pop music was using the DX-7 he used the much less known Synthex, when the period would have called for using the DX-7 on Rendez-Vous for example. (The fact that JMJ doesn't like the DX-7 is another reason, of course.) One funny thing was a comment from Joachim Garraud when he did a little interview of JMJ during rehearsals in Stuttgart during the <2010> tour. At some point JMJ said that at his age bands were doing farewell tours but he was doing a "newbie tour" and Garraud said "Jean-Michel never does things like everyone else." That was a joke but as he has worked closely with JMJ on many projects, his comment came from his experience in general, not only from what JMJ had just said. In various interviews in recent years JMJ was asked whether he was optimistic (about the future), and his response was "these days, almost in a subverting way, one has to be optimistic".

Great observations. I think Jarre once said that he starts every projects like a beginner. Some fans thought that his 2007-2011 era will be his goodbye and that's why he went back to Oxygene and his older albums. He had personal issues at that time, so he could not focus on innovation.

But fortunately, those people were very wrong. What has done in the last 10 years is an amazing addition to his legacy, from the commercial success of Electronica and the tour to the critical success of Oxymore, from the 75 million views of WTTOS to the subtle, calm ambient Amazonia's binaural mix, he elevated his legacy to the next level in the last 10 years.

[Richard-Eastham]

I recall an interview with JMJ in a UK newspaper approx. 2000. I think it was around the time of the Man Ray showcase for Metamorphoses, in January that year, because the interviewer made some sneering remark along the lines that the performance was nothing much more than “… a man on stage wearing an expensive suit”, or some such dismissive comment. So far, so normal for the UK press at that time when discussing JMJ.

And in that interview, a further dig was made that Jarre’s career to date and his legacy was not so great when compared to those electronic pioneering greats, Kraftwerk and what did he have to say about that? In response, Jarre, ever the diplomat, politely said something like: “Well, let’s see in ten years’ time, shall we?”

And he was right, although perhaps didn’t quite get the dates correct. Three years later, Kraftwerk release Tour de France Soundtracks, their first original music album since 1986 and then promptly became a museum piece (literally) and have continued to live in the past. And by 2010, JMJ was still touring a back catalogue but was by then starting a process of collaborations that led to Electronica 1 and 2 and from there a truly epic reinvention and revival. His legacy now assured.

[Herr Dunkel]

And in that interview, a further dig was made that Jarre’s career to date and his legacy was not so great when compared to those electronic pioneering greats, Kraftwerk and what did he have to say about that? In response, Jarre, ever the diplomat, politely said something like: “Well, let’s see in ten years’ time, shall we?”

That's a great reply!

To be fair to Kraftwerk, I wouldn't say that they live in the past. I think what happened is that in the mid-80s they ran out of new ideas and since they had previously been hailed as "visionaries" they decided to stop because they knew they couldn't live up to expectations. Ralf Hütter and Florian Schneider didn't really have to work to make a living so that was it.

Tour de France Soundtracks, while interesting and rich in textures, is not that great, and by that time everybody was making electronic pop music so it didn't stand out. And since then, album sales in general have tanked so there is no point in releasing new music when fans want to listen to the old tracks anyway (Karl Bartos said as much around 2010). In that respect they are pretty good at keeping the old stuff fresh even though every show has been more or less the same for 20 years.

Their "Katalog 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8" concept marks the achievement and the end of their total art. It can't be improved. So they present their art today that happens to have been made many years ago. And even at that time their music, while being totally new and innovative, was placed in retro contexts (e.g. Bauhaus, Italian and Russian futurism, etc.)

At the same time, recently they have been using top notch technology live while not hyping it up like JMJ sometimes does when in fact it's not really new nor is he the first (e.g. surround sound). In 2015 I saw Kraftwerk at the Electric Factory in Philadelphia (an apt name for the band!), a converted warehouse part of an old General Electric plant. That place is infamous for its crappy acoustics. But the sound of the Kraftwerk concert was clear, very sharp, very detailed, without distortion - excellent sound. (Better sound than JMJ's concert in 2017 at a "real" music theater in the area.) So a lot of work went into achieving good sound. It was also a "3D" concert. I went in thinking it would be a funny gimmick, but it really does work! Some visual effects were stunning. And more recently I read somewhere that they were experimenting with spatialization and sound placement at various venues these past couple of years.

(Also they take much better care of their reissues! The packaging of the 40th anniversary Zoolook vinyl is a joke.)

[Herr Dunkel]

But fortunately, those people were very wrong. What has done in the last 10 years is an amazing addition to his legacy, from the commercial success of Electronica and the tour to the critical success of Oxymore, from the 75 million views of WTTOS to the subtle, calm ambient Amazonia's binaural mix, he elevated his legacy to the next level in the last 10 years.

Very true! I would add Eōn to your list . This is such a cool "album"! (Some sounds from it have been used in Amazônia.) It's not the first generative music app (for example, Brian Eno made generative music before and ported it to phones - and that app allows the user to tweak parameters while Eōn is "passive" only so more like listening to an album), but the music is interesting and the visuals is hypnotic at times, and after all that time (I got it about 3 years ago) I am still often surprised by what I hear and see. A couple of weeks ago it was the first time I heard music that would have definitely fitted on Oxygène - "Eminent" and wind noises in a small melodic motif for a couple of minutes. Very surprising.

[Pat Gleeson]

Very true! I would add Eōn to your list . This is such a cool "album"! (Some sounds from it have been used in Amazônia.)

And let's not forget the sublime Oxygéne 3 and Equinoxe Infinity - worthy successors to and a match in many ways to the originals

[Jarrepeggiator]

To be fair to Kraftwerk, I wouldn't say that they live in the past. I think what happened is that in the mid-80s they ran out of new ideas and since they had previously been hailed as "visionaries" they decided to stop because they knew they couldn't live up to expectations. Ralf Hütter and Florian Schneider didn't really have to work to make a living so that was it.

It's actually Jean-Michel Jarre himself who called them a 'living museum' or a 'piece of museum' multiple times in interviews. And of course, he always mentions that he has lots of respect for what they've done. But he basically says that he could never ever do what they are doing, to just repeating the same for the rest of their lives.
They ran out of ideas, okay, but I think the main reason for that is that they did not want to keep up with technology after a while. Jarre did, Jarre embraced every newer wave in electronic music and created "his version" of that style on the newer albums. As he said many times, totally new ideas do not exist, every idea comes from the experiences of the artist, from what that artist have seen or heard. So the inspiration is there, Kraftwerk could've gain inspiration from the new digital instruments and the new styles of the 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s, 2020s like Jarre.
And I'm saying this as a fan of Kraftwerk, I enjoy many of their albums, but their legacy, versatility, etc. in not on Jarre's level in my opinion. Kraftwerk is a 70s artist, even the last album from 2003 is very close to that sound. Jarre is a 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s and 2020s artist. You will find people from all of these decades who love a Jarre album of that decade and not just Oxygene/Equinoxe. Look at Reddit, read the comments of young people who got into Jarre's music with Oxymore and Oxymoreworks or a random Spotify autoplay from Metamorphoses. And of course, here I am on this forum, a Jarre fan for 10 years, since 2015, I got into his music due to Electronica 1.

And since then, album sales in general have tanked so there is no point in releasing new music when fans want to listen to the old tracks anyway (Karl Bartos said as much around 2010). In that respect they are pretty good at keeping the old stuff fresh even though every show has been more or less the same for 20 years.

Well, that's obvious, but that's why Jarre literally said that "when you start thinking about pleasing the audience, you are killing your creative process".

I think the key is: you should be willing to lose fans. Jarre also said last year in that Instagram stream that he is aware that he is losing many older fans, but he is not going to worry about that, because is also gaining new fans with different, newer, more modern sounding albums, people who will never discover Oxygene without him moving forward. When you are trying to just keep the entire original fanbase from the 1970s, you will end up playing the same "good ol' nostalgic sounds" for them again and again, you will become a content creator and not a free and creative artist.

And again, I'm saying this, because I feel that Kraftwerk could've been even bigger by going with on the David Bowie, Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, Gary Numan, Jean-Michel Jarre way of evolving, changing, taking artistic risk even after having a huge fanbase. Imagine a Kraftwerk that embraces the late 90s, early 2000s minimal techno and IDM, imagine a Kraftwerk that gets inspired by dark electro or glitch or synthwave, anything like that.

[Jarrepeggiator]

Very true! I would add Eōn to your list . This is such a cool "album"! (Some sounds from it have been used in Amazônia.)

And let's not forget the sublime Oxygéne 3 and Equinoxe Infinity - worthy successors to and a match in many ways to the originals

Of course, amazing albums. They were of course, not as commercially successful as Electronica and epecially the Electronica Tour and they were also not as innovative, different, revolutionary as Amazonia and Oxymore were, but they added to the legacy of Oxygene and Equinoxe, with Oxygene 3 giving us a wonderful ending to the trilogy and a modern version of the original album and Equinoxe Infinity mixing old Equinoxe ideas with completely new ideas.

[Richard-Eastham]

An article by Jeanette Winterton, posted here because she shares JMJ's positive attitude to AI. She sees it as an extension to the creative process, that the technology uses data to create just as humans use memories to create.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/ ... dApp_Other

[Velodynamic]

AI is a good thing in many aspects i.e. doing all the boring or dangerous work for the humane sociaty. However when it comes to art and entertainment and mimicking human feelings AI is simply ridiculous.