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Remastered Albums 2014 and 2015


Post Posted Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:15 pm
shadow


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Wow... And I thought the samples were bad, the actual CD's are even worse!? :hide:
Elf wrote:This is exactly why I no longer buy remasters, but play my good old vinyls, as well as only buying LPs.

Remasters today are simply "loads of compression which sounds shit"
The recent remasters from Vangelis are great, you might not agree with the added reverb, but the quality itself is top notch. Same with the Mike Oldfield 5.1 Remixes, those are bloody well done!
27-11-10: Ahoy Rotterdam
22-11-16: Heineken Music Hall Amsterdam
01-07-25: Palais royal de Bruxelles/Paleizen Plein Brussel
Post Posted Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:26 pm
Finaero


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shadow wrote:The recent remasters from Vangelis are great, you might not agree with the added reverb, but the quality itself is top notch. Same with the Mike Oldfield 5.1 Remixes, those are bloody well done!
I stopped paying attention to those releases when I heard that there are some blatantly audible cuts in parts where the track used to change in the previous CD versions, not to mention some tracks being shortened.

Of course, those might be just really minor faults in overall coherent releases. I guess I'm still interested in the Spiral release since it features To The Unknown Man Pt. II in. Maybe one day. ;]
Post Posted Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:43 pm
shadow


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Yeah the cuts in the remasters are an odd choice. But if anything those changes are artistic choices (seeing how Vangelis was the one who oversaw the project) more than anything. The remastering job was topnotch! :wink:

Also if you only want Spiral for the bonus track, I just recommend you sending me a message! :nod:
27-11-10: Ahoy Rotterdam
22-11-16: Heineken Music Hall Amsterdam
01-07-25: Palais royal de Bruxelles/Paleizen Plein Brussel
Post Posted Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:32 am
Voyager37


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I like new remasters. I can't hear differences in dynamics and I prefer listen music but not look (graphs). All I observe is the recording is louder. So I can hear fine nuances clearer. No distortion. Don't like vinyl clicks, noise and deterioration of sound quality to LP center.
Post Posted Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:11 am
Dr_Jones


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Voyager37 wrote:I like new remasters. I can't hear differences in dynamics and I prefer listen music but not look (graphs). All I observe is the recording is louder. So I can hear fine nuances clearer. No distortion. Don't like vinyl clicks, noise and deterioration of sound quality to LP center.
Ehm, the graph only shows how much of the dynamics of the music is lost.
Post Posted Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:13 am
Stubie


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Icarus wrote:Everything is compressed, it's almost the same volume level during all the track.
I apologise for the wall of text, but I've been analysing and listening to (and much more) these remasters for many, many weeks, so I have a lot to say about them.

The compression is the least of the problems with the new remasters. I've only just registered here, specifically so that I can comment on the quality of the new remasters. In general, they are terrible. It's not a complete loss though.

There are good things about the new remasters: imaging is better (ie. being able to pin-point where in the stereo "stage" a sound is coming from), bass is cleaner and seems to extend lower, and there is real high frequency content (which probably contributes to the better imaging). The live albums have expanded stereo (not sure if simulated stereo, or just an expansion of what was already there, by reducing the commonality/increasing the difference between channels). It's subjective whether this is good or bad (in the case of the Introduction on Destination Docklands, it's bad, assuming that's why the main sound seem missing and it all sounds like echo), but overall I like it.

But there are so many things wrong with them: the bass is waaaay too high. It overpowers everything, and that's what contributes to a lot of the DR loss (along with limiting, probably needed because the bass has pushed everything so loud). Also frequencies around 1kHz are boosted (which is also the case for E&R, but not to this level), which makes it sound like it was recorded in a tin can (to quote someone else here) - which is very obvious on Magnetic Fields Parts 2 and 4 - and the balance of the frequencies are all over the place. There are pops and clicks all the way through Oxygene and Equinoxe. It may be that they were always there, but very subdued due to the duller high frequency response of all previous releases, but whatever the reason, no attempt seems to have been made to remove them. There's an obvious tape drop-out in the left channel at about 4:37 into Oxygene Part 6. Much like the '97 remasters, the channels seem to have been randomly swapped - most noticeable in Equinoxe.

As an example, here is the spectrum (produced in Audacity) of the 'rolling and crashing waves' sounds between Oxygene Parts 5 and 6, specifically one of the higher frequency ones (is that a wave coming in to shore, or is it the water pulling out before a new wave crashes in?).
Here it is from my earliest CD version:
Image

and here it is from the new remasters:
Image

What's not so obvious there (due to the linear frequency scale) is the bump at 1kHz. It's meant to be filtered white noise, so in theory it should be fairly flat, like the first version. You can see a slight dip at around the 5kHz mark, or alternatively a slight boost from around 10kHz up, with a noticeable ramp up at 12.5kHz (more so than the earlier version). Anything above that, it's hard to say what it really should be - the really high frequencies could be dominated by noise or dither.

I expect that it's all been "mastered for iTunes", where the massive bass and 1kHz boost are designed to compensate for crappy standard iPod/iPhone headphones, and the excessive dynamic range compression helps with bad listening environments. I still don't understand why that kind of thing can't be left for what's sold on iTunes, and the CDs be left alone. I have a very good sound system, and all the flaws are immediately obvious. When you have speakers that are larger than the average person (mine are 6' tall - taller than I am), with the volume to reproduce clean bass, all the boosted bass gets reproduced just fine and, as I said, overpowers everything. With a smaller set of speakers - such as bookshelf speakers, or even most headphones - you might not appreciate how much of a boost around 40-50Hz there is. If you're unlucky to have bass-reflex ported speakers tuned to around 100Hz or so, everything will sound just horribly boomy.

However, it's not a complete loss. The good thing about the new remasters is that they're consistent. That was the biggest issues I had with the '97 remasters - I didn't mind those versions of Oxygene and Equinoxe, but for example Magnetic Fields had stupidly loud low frequency bass (around 50Hz) in some tracks (eg. Part 4), while other tracks were fine. In a fit of "fury" over how terrible the new remasters are, but given the consistency of them, I decided to do something about it and I attempted to "fix" them.

Unfortunately of course, I only have access to 44.1/16 ripped from my CDs, but I used the best linear-phase equaliser I had, processing at 24bit, and went about "correcting" them. I used things like the filtered white noise between Oxygene Parts 5 and 6, and frequency sweep tones in Orient Express, and similar rising scales in the middle of Magnetic Fields Part 1, and various other things, to try to flatten out the response a bit. The second half of Magnetic Fields Part 1, and both Magnetic Fields Parts 2 and 4 were good references for how the ~1kHz boost needed attenuating. I had to pull the bass down around 3-4dB, drop around 1kHz about the same, push up frequencies around 5kHz. The trickiest part was removing the 1kHz boost without removing too much around it, and trying to remove enough bass to stop it all sounding muddy, without leaving the sound too lean or cool. I've probably listened to all the remasters all the way through about 100 times now, just going through this process.

So after tweaking, and tweaking, and tweaking some more, I eventually got something that I'm mostly happy with. There is still the issue of dynamic range compression, which unfortunately does cause some melodies that should (or used to) stand out from the rest, to just blend in too much, but still, in many respects what I've ended up with I like better than previous issues.

Just as a reference, here's a waveform of "The Emigrant", the last track of Destination Docklands, to show a before and after my equalisation:
Image

And look at that, you can actually see a little detail in the waveform now that it's not dominated by bass!

With my re-equalisation, an album like Equinoxe, which sits mostly in the mid to mid-low frequencies, didn't change much in terms of sound or dynamic range - it being affected mostly by the 1kHz attenuation. It and Oxygene are fairly "wet" albums to begin with (lots of background "ambience" and echo/reverb, etc.) so they would likely never score really high DR values anyway - though of course they should be better than they are. Magnetic Fields is a much drier album, and its frequency content is spread across a much wider range and so it is affected much more by my equalisation, and shows some reasonable DR score improvements because of it. Destination Docklands is probably the worst for DR score, and benefits most from the attenuation of bass to a more natural level, and ends up with a decent DR bump because of it.

Clearly limiting has been applied, and that's produced a lot of the DR reduction. But the frequency balance and horribly boosted bass contributes a lot of the DR reduction too.

If people here could prove they own the remasters, I'd send them my versions, but that's impractical, if not impossible. Instead, I'll give you a small snippet of what the differences sound like: Equalisation Comparison
This contains a small section of the white noise "crashing waves" between Oxygene Parts 5 and 6, a small bit from the beginning of Magnetic Fields Part 2 looped, and a small bit from the beginning of Magnetic Fields Part 4 looped. Each of those contains my re-equalised versions first, followed by the normal 2014 Remasters versions. I fully understand you might not like the sound of what I've done for re-equalisation, but I hope that it highlights the 1kHz problem at least.

Special thanks to Kanta/Jarregirl, who either set up what was required to get registrations allowed again, or prodded someone on my behalf to do it.
Post Posted Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:52 am
Dr_Jones


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This is a great post, thanks for your thourough analysis. I will save this on my harddisk for future references.
Post Posted Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:18 pm
Kanta
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Stubie wrote:Special thanks to Kanta/Jarregirl, who either set up what was required to get registrations allowed again, or prodded someone on my behalf to do it.
You are welcome. Good review on the Remasters 2014 and your first post. Welcome to the forum. :)
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Post Posted Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:35 am
Dr_Jones


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Slightly on-topic:
http://www.distortionofsound.com/

Hear it all.

The last two decades have seen a striking decline in the quality of sound and listening experience. Compressed music, MP3s and streaming, have diminished the quality and flattened the emotion. Marketing gimmicks and convenience now take the place of excellence. The Distortion of Sound is an eye-opening exposé of the current state of sound starring Linkin Park, Slash, Quincy Jones and more. This documentary will open your ears and inspire you to reach for richer, more soul-stirring musical experiences.
Post Posted Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:07 pm
shadow


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Will watch immediatly! :D
27-11-10: Ahoy Rotterdam
22-11-16: Heineken Music Hall Amsterdam
01-07-25: Palais royal de Bruxelles/Paleizen Plein Brussel
Post Posted Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:42 pm
shadow


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Currently listening to the Concert en Chine remaster and first impression is... Wow... Just wow! The remastering was done by David Perreau correct? Because I thought that his "masterpiece" was already accomplished with Essentials and Rarities! He just outdid himself! :|
27-11-10: Ahoy Rotterdam
22-11-16: Heineken Music Hall Amsterdam
01-07-25: Palais royal de Bruxelles/Paleizen Plein Brussel
Post Posted Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:28 pm
DarkVoyage


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My small review of remasters from July that I posted at Jarre UK blog (maybe of some interest to this community). I can tell you straight away that I sympathize to Scott Hull's remasters from 1997 and base my opinion on them, no matter that they still have many problems.

New remasters are generally under expectations. They sound over-saturated with much background noise. There are nice moments of course - they sound much more detailed, at the same time in some moments, where it should be softer, it sounds like a frequency porridge. The sound is notably louder than before "as we like it". I didn't listened to all of them completely yet, but here are my thoughts on some of their problems.

Oxygene begins with a flaw! (facepalm) In 40 years no one failed this album like that, but engineer Dave Dadwater introduced the new way of mastering - the glitch in first two seconds of playback time! Bravo! Also the master tapes began to degrade, Oxygene Part 6 has a large drop out in sound on 4:37. He could easily take audio from any other source, but he don't care at all, he don't even care to listen to it to do something about it. The ending noise washes sound like harsh noise - it should be very soft analogue sound... The main album is flawed the most...

Equinoxe begins with a very loud background noise under pads, its level is same for whole album. I didn't notice any problems in first listen, except for different sound of second half of Part 8. Looks like original master record is not very good in this place and its artifacts sound different in 1997 edition and this one. I can't tell, which is better, they are both not fine. But personally I like the 1997 variant that anyway sounds more open in whole.

Magnetic Fields I listened the most attentive and it has no obvious problems, a little too much background noise in Part 5, but generally it is the best of three. At the same time it doesn't provide so much of new details comparing to 1997 edition and two above.

Cities in Concert Houston Lyon - not listened yet, but the first thing is seen - it has old tracklist of 48 minutes from "In Concert" 1987 edition, not the expanded 71 minute 1988 version that was really called "Cities in Concert" and then it was remastered in 1997. As I remember this version is rather different from 1987 edition (that had 16 separate tracks, here they are glued into 10) and some of tracks are completely different recordings (from different concerts), also different transition effects between tracks. This is not replacement fro 1997 nice remaster.

I don't have Destination Docklands yet.

No matter that 1997 remasters had some small flaws, I prefer them over all other editions. They were really done with much soul, if you remember they all had words from Scott Hull in booklet. It was done in 1997, when the technology of mastering was not so great as today. The strong point in new remasters - they are made with modern hardware/software that makes most of the tasks a simple game in mosaic (tell you as mastering engineer). Dave Dadwater is careless and indifferent engineer, who had done the inaccurate work. Damaged the original dynamics and balance, and much more - the mystic atmosphere.

Previously there was information that JMJ remasters albums himself beginning from Zoolook, but that looks to be only for Essentials compilations. This could be much more interesting to hear in whole.

To add to above about Cities in Concert and The Concerts in China that was also a part of the first wave of releases. This one is something different, most likely because original recording is initially better, without much artifacts, some small volume walks are heard on 1997 edition also. Here I should say that it is already a question of taste. New edition provides much more detail than any previous, but lacks mysterious atmosphere and dynamics, but at a least I didn't hear any obvious artifacts at first listen. I personally prefer the Cities in Concert expanded set and revised tracklist with different Equinoxe Part 5 that is more smooth than In Concert aggressive version, also transition effects were made more interesting and smart. But for some fans this can be a nice item, because this recording was not used since 1991 golden set.
Post Posted Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:41 pm
Dr_Jones


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DarkVoyage wrote:No matter that 1997 remasters had some small flaws, I prefer them over all other editions. They were really done with much soul, if you remember they all had words from Scott Hull in booklet.
Like swapping left and right for Equinoxe and Zoolook and the small skip in Chronologie 4 on Chronologie?
Post Posted Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:30 am
DarkVoyage


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Dr_Jones wrote:
DarkVoyage wrote:No matter that 1997 remasters had some small flaws, I prefer them over all other editions. They were really done with much soul, if you remember they all had words from Scott Hull in booklet.
Like swapping left and right for Equinoxe and Zoolook and the small skip in Chronologie 4 on Chronologie?
Swapped channels is not a problem really. Are you sure that they are not corrected in 1997 as it was intended, while all others are wrong? One never knows... In the end, this can be corrected without any loss, if needed. Glitches can be found anywhere in any versions. Badly mixed transitions and cuts in concerts for example. This is a commercial work, nobody would search for all glitches with magnifier.

At least 1997 remasters have original Zoolook without remixes, original Revolutions (Revolution, Revolutions, not just Revolutions - single version with flute beginning), Rendez-Vous in 6 tracks, not 11, complete Cities in Concert, The Concerts in China on one CD, but unfortunately cutted Hong Kong (but still ok). The guys made it really well for the definitive collection with nice artwork.

These new series just began and they already suck.
Post Posted Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:26 am
synthmann


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I still listen to the cd versions I bought in the early 90ies when I discovered Jarre and quickly collected all albums out to that date. This means none of these albums is a remastered version, they're all older versions. I actually find nothing wrong with them and no reason to spend my money again to buy the same music. What would one do with the old versions then?

For me it would be a waste of money and, more importantly, of valuable scarce resources involved in the production of the disc and packaging. The only reason to buy a new disc would be if the old one would start to degrade in some way but then still, I hardly use the discs anymore as I've imported them all in lossless quality in iTunes.







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