Blah Blah Cafe, the Jean-Michel Jarre forum

[Polarity]

Hello,
I'm almost done with my Oxygene2 cover, but still I'm getting hard time getting right
the wind noise sounds for Oxygene2 (and Equinoxe4) covers/replicas.

I don't mean the main and continous wind effect, that one I got it almost perfectly
(at least I'm satisfied with it), it's the single short ones that I have some problems with.
I thought it would have been easier...
but actually I didn't succed yet in replicating exactly the quick and aggressive attack of the original sounds...
(and I tried also doing real time manipulation of cutoff, resonance, envelope amount, etc...)

Did JMJ use some other trick other than the envelopes and filter on VCS3/AKS?!?
ok SmallStone (always), but then?
Just SmallStone at high rates (a bit like the Snare/Cymbal of MiniPops)?

there is also a sort of explosion at 4.08: (example here )

How did you managed these sounds in your covers?

On Equinoxe4 also instead...
the wind is done with SmallStone Hi Colour, again, ok ...
the passing "starship like" sound was done with Mistress I think (I get a similar sound with GuitarRig flanger emulation)...
but - again - the quick short noise bursts are not coming out right.

Can you help me please with some analysis and suggestions of yours?
I would appreciate that a lot.
Thanks in advance

[Beelooo]

it's the single short ones that I have some problems with.
I thought it would have been easier...
but actually I didn't succed yet in replicating exactly the quick and aggressive attack of the original sounds...
(and I tried also doing real time manipulation of cutoff, resonance, envelope amount, etc...)

What short ones exactly ? could you give me exemples ?

If it's what i think, it's just the same wind sound at different moment of the phase effect, mixed at the right time OR maybe cutted and pasted with tapes.

the passing "starship like" sound was done with Mistress I think (I get a similar sound with GuitarRig flanger emulation)...

Yes it's simply a noise with a flange effect

but - again - the quick short noise bursts are not coming out right.

The "aircraft pass" sound ?

[Polarity]

The "aircraft pass" sound ?

nope.

What short ones exactly ? could you give me exemples ?

sure I can

for Oxygene2: again from
from the right channel, at 3.51, 3.53 and 3.55 for example.

for Equinoxe4:
at 1.35, 1.36, 1.37 you can hear three of them, one after another in a row.
These one, I don't think they are like you say here:

"...it's just the same wind sound at different moment of the phase effect, mixed at the right time OR maybe cutted and pasted with tapes"

this is a nice idea that I didn't think about, but I believe could be right for most of the noise/wind sounds in Oxygene2 (but not all, the explosion for example is different),
not in Equinoxe4.

thankyou for the ideas in the meanwhile
I will give a try to the mixing fader up&down or the cut&paste trick.

[Analog-Umph]

for Oxygene2: again from
from the right channel, at 3.51, 3.53 and 3.55 for example.

for Equinoxe4:
at 1.35, 1.36, 1.37 you can hear three of them, one after another in a row.
These one, I don't think they are like you say here:

Polarity bro, they are just simple noise bursts, nothing more. No attack, no release.

Oxygene 2 ones are rather dry with either a bandpass filter or heavy eq keep them in check, so they occupy only the specified part of the spectrum.

The really aggressive bursts you referenced in your OP, those are done with a filter envelope and the filter opened up and resonance up, but you'll notice they change over the course of 1-2 seconds they last, ie the filter closes, so they have this evolving quality to them, that brings that extra bit of life to the sound.

Equinoxe 4 ones are very wet in reverb. (there might be a little bit of flanging/phasing there as well. yes - no?)

Both are echoed of course.

The only other "secret" to them is that they are played with different filter settings, so that they get more intense each time - which is nothing more than playing 1 burst with filter setting at low, then opening it up a little for the second pass, then opening it up even more for the third burst.
Great for emotional effect that white/pink/brown noise, eh?!

"...it's just the same wind sound at different moment of the phase effect, mixed at the right time OR maybe cutted and pasted with tapes"

this is a nice idea that I didn't think about, but I believe could be right for most of the noise/wind sounds in Oxygene2 (but not all, the explosion for example is different),
not in Equinoxe4.

That's exactly what it is.

I've recreated all these sound for my pleasure, and there is no other secret to them.

[Polarity]

Thanks Umph for all suggestions

The really aggressive bursts you referenced in your OP, those are done with a filter envelope and the filter opened up and resonance up, but you'll notice they change over the course of 1-2 seconds they last, ie the filter closes, so they have this evolving quality to them, that brings that extra bit of life to the sound.

The only other "secret" to them is that they are played with different filter settings, so that they get more intense each time - which is nothing more than playing 1 burst with filter setting at low, then opening it up a little for the second pass, then opening it up even more for the third burst.

That's what I did till now, but as I said it didn't work as I wanted (or similar to O2 ones).
That's why my concern.

Now actually I think two were my mistakes:
first using pink noise - good for overall wind (it's darker as the one at the beginning of Equinoxe4 CiC version), but perhaps not good for short bursts, better the white noise.

second, using the wrong plugin... (Arturia MiniMoog V original (the one they gave for free) or the MiniMoog soundsources inside Omnisphere.

In the last few days for the wind sounds I started using Monark, the new NI MiniMoog D emulation that I recently got with the Komplete9 update
And I have to say that I hear much the difference: much responsive wind/noise sound attack.
Monark probably has faster envelope and for sure a better ladder filter emulation.
It seems it's now possible to make the sounds I was looking for.

[Analog-Umph]

Stay away from Arturia's plugins, they are real bad if you wanna do serious analog.
I can't believe how many people they've managed to fool with those guis.
They are ok, but every single time I've tried to do 70's analog, I only manage to coax very simple background sounds from them, that you can get with any synth.

The later ones and the ones that have gone through significant updates due to people's suggests are better, such as the CS, the Jupiter and the OB emus. However, as much as they sound better from their other plugs, they still do not compare to that which they purport to emulate. Unfortunately.
But aside from those 3, the rest I think have the worst osc and filters I've ever heard in my life.

[Polarity]

Well, yes I know...
and I know your idiosyncrasy for Arturia VST instruments.
But I thought that for just wind/noise stuff they would have been good enough

Well, it was their free give away edition, so no money were involved.

And honestly. When I tried the Analog Lab demo, indeed I didn't like much the Jupiter8.
Judging from presets sounding I liked it much less compared to Prophet or ARP2600 models.

[Polarity]

Stay away from Arturia's plugins, they are real bad if you wanna do serious analog.

I knew your thinking about Arturia VST instruments...
but what's your opinion about Xils Lab ones, and Xils3 in particular?

[Analog-Umph]

Stay away from Arturia's plugins, they are real bad if you wanna do serious analog.

I knew your thinking about Arturia VST instruments...
but what's your opinion about Xils Lab ones, and Xils3 in particular?

I like them, but the interesting thing is they have a very similar sound, because the Xils dev used to work at Arturia way back.
Oxium is different because of the circuit modelling.

I was gonna write something about Xils 3 in another thread, but since you are now asking for it, here:
It is a very deep synth, extending on many of the VCS3's natural capabilities. In fact so extensive that its presets take a 1-3 full seconds to load.

Soundwise, it's somewhere between Arturia's synths and the offerings of say AudioRealism and AdmiralQuality. So it ain't Diva or Monark, or even Timewarp2600.
There are also certain limitations on it that do not exist on the hardware units, which makes it impossible to create certain sounds.

A couple of other emus, both free and not so free, have a certain more immediate VCS3 feel. You should seek them out.

One thing you can always notice about Arturia's synths and to a degree with the first 3 Xils synths is that they purport to emulate certain hardware synths, yet if I wasn't told that, I would never have guessed it. Because they all sound rather generic and woody and just not raw and gritty enough, not by a long shot. Xils 3 somewhat escapes this curse by a cinch but not by much.

To be quite honest I've made far more satisfactory patches on other EMS emus than on X3.
X3 is good, but not there yet as far as being the complete VCS3 emu, soundwise and featurewise.

[Polarity]

Yep, infact when I tried yhe Xils3 a year ago I found problems redoing the O2/E4 sweep effects,
probably something is missing in its sound chain.
Perhaps now it's not convenient to spend time on it programming if you confirm that it has limitations that aren't on the VCS3!

However some bass sound presets are not bad...

About other SynthiA emulations... well, I found good the CynthiaA, but the problem was that it was not responding to CC Midi Controls to me (even if in the manual is written it does),
so using the virtual joystick for the sweep sounds was useless and a pain if not MIDI recordable.
So I put it aside.

Thanks for the post/infos Umph!

[Analog-Umph]

However some bass sound presets are not bad...

You too picked up on it. Some nice drones in there, indeed.

About other SynthiA emulations... well, I found good the CynthiaA, but the problem was that it was not responding to CC Midi Controls to me (even if in the manual is written it does),
so using the virtual joystick for the sweep sounds was useless and a pain if not MIDI recordable.
So I put it aside.

Thanks for the post/infos Umph!

did you try the Avs?

[Polarity]

No, I tried only the free ones.
Man, 350 euros! Not cheap.
I will give it a try, there's a downloadable demo.
thanks.

Do you use this one for yours works?

[Analog-Umph]

No, I tried only the free ones.
Man, 350 euros! Not cheap.
I will give it a try, there's a downloadable demo.
thanks.

Do you use this one for yours works?

Also not the best, but I've been able to do some amazing stuff on it. Sometimes though it's a bitch to mix.

It can't do many hardware sounds, doesn't have the rawness of hardware, esp since its synthedit, but can sound hella wierd and out there.

No not cheap, they've kept that idiotic price since like 2004.

If you buy it, ask them for a discount, considering how old it is, and how much softsynth technology has moved since then in circuit emulation.

[Polarity]

I just tried the EMS Synthi AVS demo.
For the sounds I have to say that's really interesting:
playing here and there the controls on various presets I heard even "flares" of Star Wars R2D2 or Empire probes (yep infact the sound engineer made an heavy use of VCS/AKS to make those movies sound effects).
But, man... no way of assigning MIDI CC controls to any knob or joystick!
I don't know if it's a demo problem only or not...
edit: and the GUI is really really small... not good for the eyes.
For now I won't spend a buck for it...

I want to try also this Reaktor emulation instead:
https://www.native-instruments.com/inde ... tchid=3582
from the comments it seems that it receives CC controls.

[Polarity]

forget previous link.
I found there is an updated v.21 version of it, here
http://co.native-instruments.com/index. ... tchid=4892

Reaktor is full of free ensembles... and some quite good reading comments.
Have to check also the other ones by this programmer...
Zoo Took? could be a JMJ fan perhaps?