Blah Blah Cafe, the Jean-Michel Jarre forum

[LeoDaV]

In the EKO-thread was written that the MP7 is responsible for the equi4 drums ... I found that really intriguing...

I have wondered for the past few days HOW then...

We all know that the drum patterns used in equi4 can't come from the standard MP7. Even the sounds of the mp7 are not there. That's why we all assumed it must have been the EKO. Wich makes me wonder now where was the EKO used then???....

If I pitch down (both tempo and pitch) the rythm of equi4 (the part with the snare audiable) with 1/2 octave I can hear a sound that resembles the Tambourine sound in the background. So there is minipops afterall... maybe this test also explains the drum sounds a bit.

There are a few possibillities.

1) It's a standard mp7 being treated with GRM techniques (= record, cut tapes, reassemble) played back with a different speed and thus the pitch. (remember no samplers in that time!)

2) It's the GEISS Rythmicomputer (wich is believed to be a MP7 with different method of triggering)

3) Jarre does know how to use a screwdriver and modded the MP7 himselve. (I really doubt that)

4) It's not the MP7 afterall (bad mem after those years is acceptable )

If you want to reproduce the rythm used on Equi4 you need to have the sounds seperately. Like a sample of the bd, snare, clave etc..

If you take a look at the schematics, you'll notice all sounds come together on one wire and go into the pre-amp. The only way to get the sounds needed is to de-solder all wires comming from the diode-'matrix' on page 2. They are labelled "CY", "SD", "CT" etc... Also because if I probe on several outputs you can hear the rest of the sounds too. So you can't get clean sounds.

Tonight I have put on my bad shoes and unscrewed the MP7 cover to have a look inside in order to probe it with my scope...

Sorry for the bad quality (colour/light/sharpness):

This pictures shows the sound generating modules.

And here the top print removed:

On this pic you can see the hart of the MP7 and specially the part that triggers the sound 'modules' on the upper printed board.

The probing reveiled that on the "CY", "SD", "CT" etc... points only trigger like pulses emerge. Like I wrote above: the only way to get all sounds seperate is to desolder all wires except the one you want to have.

I really can't imagine JMJ did that in order to get the sounds he needed for the rythm. So that rules out idea 3.

That leaves the Rythmicomputer and the GRM method.

At this point I strongly believe it must have been the Rythmicomputer. Since the pitch of the sounds can be altered. See schematic.

I'm going to try to do the GRM method in the comming days in order to find out if that was used.

So far this report.

J.

[Mogwai]

Hardcore! I love this!

Really interesting info on this LeoDav. I will listen myself and see if I can hear that tambourine as well.

[radek tymecki]

If geiss's machine was programmable it MUST be that machine. I really doubt that JMJ used such techniques [reversing etc] to create such rhytm...

btw Francis Rimbert confirmed to me, that it was minipops with smallstone phaser

[jarrekid]

If geiss's machine was programmable it MUST be that machine. I really doubt that JMJ used such techniques [reversing etc] to create such rhytm...

Mmm, if he was doing avant garde tape work before, I really would be surprised if he never used it again (until Zoolook, even though that was mainly sampler work).

[GeeJee]

If geiss's machine was programmable it MUST be that machine. I really doubt that JMJ used such techniques [reversing etc] to create such rhytm...

Mmm, if he was doing avant garde tape work before, I really would be surprised if he never used it again (until Zoolook, even though that was mainly sampler work).

I agree here. JMJ has been working with tapes even before GRM, as he said himself. There were not any samplers available until 1980, so it was not that uncommon at all to work with such tape methods to achieve certain sounds...

[C-Real]

The probing reveiled that on the "CY", "SD", "CT" etc... points only trigger like pulses emerge. Like I wrote above: the only way to get all sounds seperate is to desolder all wires except the one you want to have.

I really can't imagine JMJ did that in order to get the sounds he needed for the rythm. So that rules out idea 3.

Nevertheless, they own a modified MP7 !
(I don't remember if it's JMJ or F.R. but it is one both.)

You just have to desolder all wires (as you said) and re-solder them on separate mono 1/4" jacks and voila ! you've had separate outputs on your MP7 and you can record it on separate tracks in your digital audio worksation !!!

Regards,
C-Real.

PS : Finally, I'm practically sure Francis own a "Modified MP7"

[LeoDaV]

You just have to desolder all wires (as you said) and re-solder them on separate mono 1/4" jacks and voila ! you've had separate outputs on your MP7 and you can record it on separate tracks in your digital audio worksation !!!

Regards,
C-Real.

PS : Finally, I'm practically sure Francis own a "Modified MP7"

Well like I wrote the points I probed (wich connect to the diode matrix) only give trigger like pulses. So if i routed them to a jack I would only be able to get nice triggers. I want the sounds. In order to get those I have to do a whole lot more work wich I'm not going to do because it means to take the output resistors of the modules out of the print and that would do this 196x baby more harm then good. I just might remove the triggers (that's easy) and record all sounds seperately.

As for Francis... I've been in his studio many years ago and there was no MP7. Just a JD800 some other synth (dang! can't remember wich) and his MS20 and SQ10 and the Atari video music. Het gets the synths needed from jmj to do the work at home. (making sounds)

J.

[C-Real]

You just have to desolder all wires (as you said) and re-solder them on separate mono 1/4" jacks and voila ! you've had separate outputs on your MP7 and you can record it on separate tracks in your digital audio worksation !!!

Regards,
C-Real.

PS : Finally, I'm practically sure Francis own a "Modified MP7"

Well like I wrote the points I probed (wich connect to the diode matrix) only give trigger like pulses. So if i routed them to a jack I would only be able to get nice triggers. I want the sounds. In order to get those I have to do a whole lot more work wich I'm not going to do because it means to take the output resistors of the modules out of the print and that would do this 196x baby more harm then good. I just might remove the triggers (that's easy) and record all sounds seperately.

Yes, sorry.. I've read your post too fast !!!
I wanted to say that it is possible (Francis told-me that he already used it, and Michel also confirm it to me)
They've modified a minipops to have separate outputs for each sound.

As for Francis... I've been in his studio many years ago and there was no MP7. Just a JD800 some other synth (dang! can't remember wich) and his MS20 and SQ10 and the Atari video music. Het gets the synths needed from jmj to do the work at home. (making sounds)

J.

Didn't you see his Korg PS ?

C-Real.

[Equinoxe]

Equi 4 drums are CR78 Sounds!!!!!

Someone posted the Drum loop on the old Jarre.net forum which is a CR78 preset loop

the 78 glocks and 78 Open hihats are distint you can spot them anywhere..


Why has anyone else thought about the Drum being anything else???


for someone of your knowledge of all things Synth LeoDav... i would have thought this would have been blatantly obvious

There was also a Promo vid of Eq4 with Jarre using a Custom pad trigger to trigger the CR78 snare!!!

Not sure if the CR78 has individual outputs,but he could have easily triggered each sound individually for the recording and pieced them together onto tape...either that or had it modified to be triggered by the Geiss devices??

[Equinoxe]

If geiss's machine was programmable it MUST be that machine. I really doubt that JMJ used such techniques [reversing etc] to create such rhytm...

Mmm, if he was doing avant garde tape work before, I really would be surprised if he never used it again (until Zoolook, even though that was mainly sampler work).

I agree here. JMJ has been working with tapes even before GRM, as he said himself. There were not any samplers available until 1980, so it was not that uncommon at all to work with such tape methods to achieve certain sounds...

Jarre has used tape splicing since his early days,so its easy to piece together loops using splicing methods and mutlitple studer recorders,a tape machine is no different to a sampler,...Look at the mellotron....

anything that can capture audio can work as a sampler the difference between a digital sampler and a tape machine is the interface and options to manipulate the audio.samplers give you more flexibility,but the same results can be achieved using a tape and splicing box,Just look at the work of PS.....Music concrete

[GeeJee]

There was also a Promo vid of Eq4 with Jarre using a Custom pad trigger to trigger the CR78 snare!!!

That vid features the extended mix which indeed obiously features a CR78 drumtrack, but the extended mix is slightly different to the original. that's where the confusion came from

[Mogwai]

Equi 4 drums are CR78 Sounds!!!!!

Someone posted the Drum loop on the old Jarre.net forum which is a CR78 preset loop

the 78 glocks and 78 Open hihats are distint you can spot them anywhere..

I own a CR-78 and haven't heard any preset that sounds anything like the Equi 4 drums.
I strongly doubt CR-78 actually. I've played with some samples (can't program mine because I don't have the WS-1. ). Nothing sounds like that glock. The closest thing is the claves. But it's too bright in timbre...

The EKO Computerhythm has got those glocks as well and I guess Minipops 7 has got them too. I wouldn't call those sounds distinct to the CR-78 since they are more or less standard sounds in presetmachines from that era.

[LeoDaV]

for someone of your knowledge of all things Synth LeoDav... i would have thought this would have been blatantly obvious

Because I'm not convinced it is the CR78. Mainly because of the kick, snare and claves. Besides I like to try out stuff and this is one of those things. If I fail to get it right using a MP7 then I will have proove it is not the MP7... Like I wrote: the statement that it should be a MP7 intrigued me and then there is the smallstone... that should also be involved ????? so... let's try it out... any scientist will tell you that you must be able to prove something with evidence...

One other reason that is quite instresting: In those days jmj had a lot of contact with KORG and not so much Roland....

The aim is to get it 100% identical. not just sound alike....

J.

[Jakob BC]

The rythmcomputer is the only drummachine written in the Equinoxe sleeve.
Ofcourse that doesn't mean that he did only use the gear from the sleeve, but as it is mentioned, he could have used it more on the album.

[Mogwai]

I've experimented all afternoon with different samples from the EKO and from the Minipops 7... And I think that it's those 2 machines together!

If the Geiss Rhythmi Computer is a programmable Minipops 7 and if my guessing is right that one is able to also control pitch and decay with that device then I am (almost) certain that this is it!

My guess:

Bassdrum: Still a big "?"
Snare: EKO
Hihat: EKO
Clock: Rhythmi Computer