BlahBlahCafe - Jean-Michel Jarre forum

Hi there

I see many of you recreating/creating sounds (Equin(oo)xe did Aerology sound, GeeJee made effetcs on his MS20...).
So now, I would like to make a sound myself too !
I'll buy soon a JP8000 (as you all know, I think ) but for now, I use many VST like SuperwaveP8, Moog Modular, PRO53 and so on....

I can modify an existing patch but impossible for me to create one, or to say : "I want this sound" and to have it...
How did you begin and with which material ?

Regards

try to modify existing patchs, and look (and hear) how they are done... you will understand the way of doing sounds like that.
If you modify sound to make an other one, take the more similar sound of what you want to do... the task will be easier.

for me, i think when you create a sound, the first step is instinct, and the a bit of technic....

I've read a few books about synthesis...

noyau wrote:

I can modify an existing patch but impossible for me to create one, or to say : "I want this sound" and to have it...
How did you begin and with which material ?

Regards

Learn how each module interconnects and what its functions are first,if you go in and say "right i'm gonna do this sound or that sound" you'll fall flat,it is possible to learn from existing patches, and see how everything interacts.I learnt mainly from reading about all types of synthesis and the limitations and comparisions between them all,i dont program all my own patches but try to make most of them,I do use presets when needed,but its likes making a cake and following a recipe book all the time.unless you know how the ingredients act together you'll never learn to make your own recipe and your cake will taste the same as everyone elses

I think nowdays with software such as the ARP2600/Minimoogs etc it gives you such a great education into learning (especially the ARP) the arp gives you every signal path labelled so its easy to see how they interact

Most of the time when i want to replicate a sound(Jarre types)i listen to the sound and try to pick out its fundementals and decide what type of oscillator waveforms they would use,sawtooth ans square waves types sounds are easy to identify...
You can then gauge how to go about duplicating that sound,its then a matter of experimenting with the Filters settings etc


Your far better learning on a VA/Subtractive analog than on ROMplers although they tend to use the same type of Wave(PCM)LFO/Filter/Amp/Effects routing,but real waveforms (saw/Square/Pulse etc) are better for learning rather than real sampled sounds

there are lots of resources on the net so theres no excuse not to learn,when i was growing up learning i never had the luxury of the net and so had to read about things or get in and learn the manuals and synthesis basics,but it did pay off..

heres a site with some useful info
http://arts.ucsc.edu/ems/music/equipmen ... synth.html

Thank you a lot for your answer
I'll read carefully the webpage you gave me

I'll continue to modify existing patches, and then, as you said, I'll learn how are made sounds from existing patches.
But it not easy at all on the D50, that's why I prefer to "play" with SuperwaveP8 but mainly with vcs5vst, I love this software, it is easy to make a beautiful effect !!

I didn't try to look closely the ARP2600, I began with the MiniMoog, that's easier because I have all knobs on the screen and I know better and better which knob to move to have which modification on the sound.

But I think (IMHO) it's easier to learn synthesis on physical synths, because you can move more knobs at the same time.
But I dunnow how will I be able to make/modify a sound if you give me a synth without memory and preset like the MiniMoog...

Anyway, thanks a lot for your help, I read the webpage you gave me now

noyau wrote:But I dunnow how will I be able to make/modify a sound if you give me a synth without memory and preset like the MiniMoog...

Anyway, thanks a lot for your help, I read the webpage you gave me now

Pen and Paper.....


or modified patch sheets....I suspect many users such as Jarre used preset patch sheets...for things like the EMS/MM/Arps

I'm pretty sure there was an ARP2600 Patch sheet in screenshot in Jarres studio on the Oxygene 7-13 EPK


Anycase,with VSTS you dont need to store the patches into the memory banks or worry about writing down the settings,when you modify a sound providing you are working within a sequencer environment, you can save a song with the VST in and it acts as a memory for the patch,i never store any patches on my MM/arp2600 But save the song data and it saves the VST as it was when i saved the song.

Pen and Paper, yes, but when you power a MiniMoog on and take all knobs to value "0", good luck for a beginner like me to make a proper sound (even with a pen and paper )

That's not a drame to use a patch sheet, no ? He didn't use a melody sheet to compose the melody

The big advantage of VST is for sure the fact you can save all patches you made ! That's very good ! But it's harder to make a sound with a mouse...

noyau wrote:
The big advantage of VST is for sure the fact you can save all patches you made ! That's very good ! But it's harder to make a sound with a mouse...

Not if you have a decent hardware controllor with plenty of knobs to assign the control changes/Sys.ex data to...

I'm not a fan of the Mouse way of editing function so i edit the majority of patches using a Korg Kontrol 49 as you can assign any cc or code to the sliders/Encoders/wheel/vector/ its great cos you can use any software Synth in a hardware environment....


I prefer the physical way of editing as i've always grown up with that way of working,although i recognise the importance of Software and it gives your more access to older hardware devices in the digital domain,without having to pay thousands to own a dinosaur.
my only gripe with software is that most VSTs should come with some sort of hardware controllor to compliment its interface like the Korg MS one included with the LC,I would have liked to see a Hardware interface for the ARP2600
Although i would bet that Creamware will in the near future release something in the hardware guise of this synth i know they have plans for a clone of the Synthex to compliment there Proddysey and Minimax and Prophet hardware racks

Ah yes, the idea of a controller is a good idea, I'll try to see prices but I saw some controller more expensive than a JP8000....
JP8000's knobs can control VST ?
And what about the PG1000 ???!!!!

Personally I almost never make a sound just to make a sound... I do it when I working on arrangements. Tweaking the envelopes, filters, etc.

The exception is probably the Juno 106 which is so easy and quick to edit. But now I've made a dozen useful sounds on it so I don't make sounds unless I need to in a particular song.

I've barely ever set out to recreate a sound that's already been made. IMO I can't really see the point. Cover versions need to be slightly different, at least.

It's not specially for covers, in this case, it's for my compositions.
If I have an "aerial" compo, I'll try to make an "aerial" sound

Well for a start, D50 is completely the wrong synth to learn synthesis, imho

I know, but I bought the D50 because there are many soundbanks on internet so, as the DX7, you don't need to create a sound yourself because you have many chances to find one like (more or less)
And it's good to have the PG1000 because you can find some excellent basses on the D50 and you play it and at the same time you modify the Frequency and the Reso, good result

GeeJee wrote:Well for a start, D50 is completely the wrong synth to learn synthesis, imho

Why?? It's very easy to programm