BlahBlahCafe - Jean-Michel Jarre forum

Detalis about laserharp sound? i want reproduce this but all what know orginal is elka syntex and based on sync but all details if possible.

The best is the original hardware
I have a synthex, laser harp sound is a default sound.

Yes this is a sound that can hardly be re-created with any other synths. I think Per Kristian did a nice one on a Virus KB though. That one was pretty well done, but he also had a real Synthex to model the sound after.

I know but sometimes man needs challenges. what are right size.

acidfever wrote:

That one is actually pretty nice

I think the key to the sound is osc sync with env pitch mod and then sent through a chorus.

Which songs/recordings are you refering to?

Listening to R-V 3 on the album there is some slight modulation of the attack - and not many synths are cabable of that - for sure not the Synthex. But the RSF Kobol Expander does.

What is confusing about the laser harp sound is the fact that R-V 2 uses a similar sound but then laser harp is not listed on the album cover on that song. But the Synthex is. And it's quite clear that THAT laser harp sound is played by the laser harp on the concerts (well just looking at the video JMJ is only fake playing). But the is no attack modulation on the R-V 2 album version.

My theory is that the laser harp was controlling the RSF Kobol Expander at the time of Rendez-Vous album. And that the laser harp was not used on the R-V 2 song on the album.

lol...

ZooTooK wrote:I think the key to the sound is osc sync with env pitch mod and then sent through a chorus.

Which songs/recordings are you refering to?

Listening to R-V 3 on the album there is some slight modulation of the attack - and not many synths are cabable of that - for sure not the Synthex. But the RSF Kobol Expander does.

What is confusing about the laser harp sound is the fact that R-V 2 uses a similar sound but then laser harp is not listed on the album cover on that song. But the Synthex is. And it's quite clear that THAT laser harp sound is played by the laser harp on the concerts (well just looking at the video JMJ is only fake playing). But the is no attack modulation on the R-V 2 album version.

My theory is that the laser harp was controlling the RSF Kobol Expander at the time of Rendez-Vous album. And that the laser harp was not used on the R-V 2 song on the album.

The "laser harpe" sound in both RV2, and RV3 are from the Synthex... that's a pure fact.

Jakob BC wrote: The "laser harpe" sound in both RV2, and RV3 are from the Synthex... that's a pure fact.

You may be right, but do you hear the change in the attack in R-V 3?

To me it's quite apparent after the octave intro... but then it might be from just tweaking the attack port while playing. But it sounds more like somebody playing a velocity sensing keyboard. Not shure if the laser harp have anything more than note on/off. But if there was some other parameter like how high up the beam is broken, it could be used as a kind of "velocity" controlled attack.

But then again I don't have any facts on this - as said it's a theory. I just have a hard time understanding why the laser harp is not listed on R-V 2, whereas the Synthex is not listed on R-V 3.... I gues it's just one of those ComputerRhythmin mystries....

And also the laser harp had to be midi-fied as the Synthex had no CV control.... but I guess there where general CV>midi converters at the time...

ZooTooK wrote:

Jakob BC wrote: The "laser harpe" sound in both RV2, and RV3 are from the Synthex... that's a pure fact.

You may be right, but do you hear the change in the attack in R-V 3?

To me it's quite apparent after the octave intro... but then it might be from just tweaking the attack port while playing. But it sounds more like somebody playing a velocity sensing keyboard. Not shure if the laser harp have anything more than note on/off. But if there was some other parameter like how high up the beam is broken, it could be used as a kind of "velocity" controlled attack.

But then again I don't have any facts on this - as said it's a theory. I just have a hard time understanding why the laser harp is not listed on R-V 2, whereas the Synthex is not listed on R-V 3.... I gues it's just one of those ComputerRhythmin mystries....

And also the laser harp had to be midi-fied as the Synthex had no CV control.... but I guess there where general CV>midi converters at the time...

It seems fairly odd to me to use a 40 mW wallpaper burning midicontroller in a studio. But that's just my 2ct. Second, the laserharp IS midified, since it's nothing more than a weird shaped midicontroller.

Also never take those album sleeve gearlists too literally. Sometimes things are left out or written differently.
If you look at the Houston/Lyon live album, RV3 is also called (Harpe Laser/Laser Harpe). Something indicates that this track was supposed to be THE laser harpe track. Therefore it also increases the magic factor, to focus on the laser harpe as an independent instrument. A lot of people wouldn't understand or care about the technical thing about controlling a "keyboard" with another keyboard or controller.

The Elka Synthex had a MIDI interface (first as a breakout box attached to the computer interface on the revision 2 and than directly fitted on revision 3) and it was just responding to Note ON / Note OFF, so there were no chances to use velocity as a modulation source.
The Laser Harp sound was from the Synthex indeed, it derives from a sound named "Ring Mod.", probably in RV 2 is used in single mode while on RV 3 is used in double mode, using maybe two slightly different versions of the sound on Upper / Lower and than panned 100% left and 100% right, to achieve a wide and rich sound; this is actually a very nice trick on the Synthex, since it is bi-timbral you can use the same sound on Upper and Lower panned L and R and due to the analog nature of each voice card you get tiny differences on each voice that animate the sound in the stereo field.
The differences in the attack of some notes that ZooTooK pointed out on RV3 might be due to the fact that the Synthex was receiving via MIDI a new Note On message for the same note without having received the Note Off from the previous, though resulting in a double playing note causing a thicker attack... (just an idea...)

John, a Synthex user, some time ago tried to analyze the values on that patch and wrote these notes for users who want to reproduce this sound on other synths.
Here they are:
".... settings are from left to right looking at the
Synthex front panel (which you likely need a picture of). Dials from 0
to 10 unless otherwise stated.

LFO - Triangle Waveform routed to PW2. Depth 3. Frequency 3. Delay 0.

Tuning - OSC2 Sync On.

OSC 1 - 8' Octave. Transpose 0. Pulse Waveform. Pulse Width -1 (of -5
to +5). Volume 7.

OSC 2 - 2' Octave. Transpose 7 (of 0 to 12). Waveform OSC1 PWM + Ring
Mod. Pulse Width -1. Volume 7.

Glide - OSC2 Glide. Speed 10. Amount 2.

Filter - Low Pass. Resonance 0. Frequency 5. Keyboard 10. Envelope 5.

Chorus setting - 1 (Lowest of three).

Filter Envelope - Attack 0. Decay 2. Sustain 2. Release 0.

Amp Envelope - Attack 0. Decay 5. Sustain 5. Release 3.

Release envelope ON."

Very nice advices Pete, i've just tried with reason, and it looks fine ^^ It'll never be the sound of synthex (that's a reason i always have my full sampled laser harp combinator patch ) but nice settings

Pete wrote:John, a Synthex user, some time ago tried to analyze the values on that patch and wrote these notes for users who want to reproduce this sound on other synths.
Here they are:
".... settings are from left to right looking at the
Synthex front panel (which you likely need a picture of). Dials from 0
to 10 unless otherwise stated.

LFO - Triangle Waveform routed to PW2. Depth 3. Frequency 3. Delay 0.

Tuning - OSC2 Sync On.

OSC 1 - 8' Octave. Transpose 0. Pulse Waveform. Pulse Width -1 (of -5
to +5). Volume 7.

OSC 2 - 2' Octave. Transpose 7 (of 0 to 12). Waveform OSC1 PWM + Ring
Mod. Pulse Width -1. Volume 7.

Glide - OSC2 Glide. Speed 10. Amount 2.

Filter - Low Pass. Resonance 0. Frequency 5. Keyboard 10. Envelope 5.

Chorus setting - 1 (Lowest of three).

Filter Envelope - Attack 0. Decay 2. Sustain 2. Release 0.

Amp Envelope - Attack 0. Decay 5. Sustain 5. Release 3.

Release envelope ON."

That looks familiar ! I also have the Per Kristian patch in the Virus Ti and it's almost exactly the same, particularly in the lower octaves. He offers the patch for free download on his site (at least he used to).