Blah Blah Cafe, the Jean-Michel Jarre forum

[Rubberlips]

Hi all,

I recently posted on my blog my thoughts on Jarre, his giveaway and the crisis in the music industry. It's quite long but I think it's a good read! What are your thoughts on the subject?

This week the 'Mail on Sunday' is giving away a copy of Jean Michel Jarre's 'Oxygene' re-recording to every reader. This has prompted me to think about Jarre's current career direction (giveaways?!) and also whether giveaways such as this are devaluing music or actually providing a way forward for a music industry which is struggling against illegal downloading?

When Mike Oldfield's 1973 classic 'Tubular Bells' was recently given away as a freebie with the 'Mail On Sunday' Oldfield complained that his record company, EMI, had allowed the promotion to take place. The 'Mail on Sunday' responded by taking out a two page ad in 'Music Week' defending their actions, stating "The whole argument is that we are devaluing music, but we are creating a stimulus." They support their statement by claiming that sales of full-price copies of 'Tubular Bells' increased 30% after the giveaway. According to 'The Guardian', music industry sources responded to the 'Mail on Sunday' claim by saying that they believed 'Tubular Bells' was a low-selling title and that a 30% hike was not that significant. Low Selling? According to Wikipedia 'Tubular Bells' has sold 'more than two million copies in the UK alone and according to some reports 15 to 17 million copies worldwide'. 'Oxygene' is much the same story for Jarre, with sales of over 15 million copies worldwide. That's not exactly low selling.

However, these classic albums have sales histories of some 30 years so a 30% hike on current 2007 sales may not be that significant. People already own or have previously owned these albums - there's not going to be a sudden mad rush to the shops some 30 years after their initial release to pick up additional copies. These albums have already done their business and with their proven history it's pretty difficult to argue that a giveaway is 'devaluing' the music in some way. The 'Mail on Sunday' says it is actually creating a stimulus, pointing to the fact that Dolly Parton's new album, 'The Very Best of Dolly Parton', entered the charts at number nine after the paper "gave away" her 'Live & Studio' album; and that the band Madness experienced a 3,000% increase in hits on its website after the paper distributed their 'Edge of the Universe' double album. The newspaper states that it is simply a different distribution channel, and that it spends "more money marketing music acts than any other music company does".

So is the Oxygene re-recording nothing more than a marketing strategy? According to the Newspaper Marketing Agency the bulk of 'Mail on Sunday' readers (14.8%) are aged between 55-64. The people in this demographic are the people who bought the original Oxygene on vinyl back in the 70's - the people who have long lost their vinyl collections and that are unlikely to have the album on CD, nor be inspired to go out and buy it a second time. The giveaway then, could be defined as an attempt to re-ignite some interest in Jarre and his music from those who may have forgotten and build up his old fan base. The figures seem to support this. Sales of Jarre's last album 'Teo & Tea' were pretty dismal, shifting only around 2700 (to existing fans probably) copies in the UK (it also dropped out of the Czech, Spanish and Italian album charts after only two weeks). The version of 'Oxygene' he is giving away in the UK only managed to get to number 127 in the UK album charts and had dropped out of the French top 50 after only five weeks. There can be little doubt that Jarre's output over the past ten years may not appeal to his original audience of the 70's. It's been more chill out and dance, and less experimental analogue synth. Although I still buy Jarre's records as they come out, my 57 year old Dad (who got me into Jarre in the first place) doesn't. The 'Mail on Sunday' giveaway of Oxygène will reach an estimated 2.7 million 'my dads'...

For the newspaper it's a win/win situation: The giveaway will help maintain momentum and the high profile of 'Oxygene' may draw additional readers. For Jarre it's more of a gamble but it doesn't seem that he really has anything to complain about: He's already released 'Oxygene 2007' around the world so he's already been making some money, He's supported the release with ten money making concerts in Paris and he has plans for further concerts throughout 2008, he will still receive a cut from the 'Mail on Sunday' (Industry sources estimate that the paper paid between £200,000 and £500,000 for the rights to Oldfield's Tubular Bells), and there the bonus of a chance that the giveaway will stimulate enough interest to turn Jarre's career around, sell a bit of back catalogue stuff, and perhaps even sell a few more albums next time - he's already suggested that his next album will have more of the 70's analogue synth.

The only thing Jarre has to do is release his next album relatively quickly to take advantage of this renewed interest before it dies down again.

With 'Teo & Tea' Jarre's career may well have been veering off in a direction not many people were interested in. The new 'Oxygene' and neext album hints suggest he's just done a massive u-turn to win back a decent fan base. What does everyone else think?

[Equinoxe]

Marketing strategy???


EMI pull the release of the single Remaster Album,until March in the UK,Now they are in a financial situation with Jobs cuts threatened and now its being Given away with the Mail,which cost £1.50 yet the Album to buy will cost 10 times that??

I wonder just who got the £Half Million for the rights if thats what they paid?

Not sure its marketing strategy,more a financial one on EMI's behalf...I would expect that the Album won't even be released after this as a CD only version,who's left to buy it???

Sure it'll help Jarre's persona,but I think the days of old where people went out to buy the records on promotional reasons are long gone,You can't find many newer Jarre Albums let alone Back catalogues in many record shops Now its either the download culture via I tunes or the Like or Online buying,most of which the original generation of Jarre fans possibly do neither.

I'm sure there are many old fans who maybe ditched there Vinyl now have the chance to hear the Oxygene album again in CD format Quality,can't see them rushing out to buy the back catalogue.Unless EMI do something,but we had that with Sony..

Jarre needs to use this Promotion to push out what he still has left in him and not cling to the same Oxygene label or bubble,he needs to ignite the Interest in his abilities without riding on the Masterpiece he's known for its now time to make use of the Analogs in the same way he has done for these concerts and create a new studio album,because it'll only be the true fans who will remain if he doesn't and by then most of the promotion will have left little impact on the rekindled masses

[Robi]

"He's supported the release with ten money making concerts in Paris"

Money making? I think those were more than money-making concerts.


According to this, i wonder how soon Jarre 'has to' release his next album...

[moviemaker]

Brilliant comments by both Rubberlips and Equinoxe. I agree with you both whole-heartedly. And now as of today and new announcement from EMI--new but not suprising.

You can read it here (sorry posted this without seeing this thread first):

EMI Cuts 2,000 jobs, restructures & blames digital downloads


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Invisible Connections ~ THE VANGELIS FORUM
http://www.vangelis.free.fr/
U.S. Moderator

[Jon]

When you start reading and looking between the lines, it's suprising how much we take these 'freebies' for granted.

[Jakob BC]

It's typical that they blame digital downloads, as this was also kind of a method to stop illegal downloading, a subject they were also whining about. No matter what I always prefer the physical product.

[Equinoxe]

It's typical that they blame digital downloads, as this was also kind of a method to stop illegal downloading, a subject they were also whining about. No matter what I always prefer the physical product.

I'm glad that Illegal file sharing and downloading came about,it was the wake up call that the Record industry needed,yet they still have done nothing Price wise to combat it,but still complain that they are having their profits eroded away,it doesn't affect the artists,they make relatively little outlay for what the Industry charges for your average Album.And by prosecuting certain individuals fro downloading illegally just makes them look even more like Greedy bastards,they need to look into the way they deal,not the illegal activity going on.All this shite about having to charge higher for an album to cover there Losses is total tosh.

If the record industry wants to stop all this illegal activity,they need to do a few simple things...

1.Stop charging so much for an Album,average CD costs in excess of £15 in a standard High st chain yet supermarkets can sell them for less than £10,they still buy them from the same supplier so why the Higher price elsewhere,yet a supermarket would shift less copies,so it can't be down to bulk buying on the supermarkets behalf that they can sell them cheaper its all about Price fixing and ripping off the consumer,the main Music chains have a lot to answer for as well as the Record companies,its these people who are damaging the artists Bank account not the Illegal downloaders/Sharing,if the average album was about half the price More people would probably buy the Physical product,it costs pretty much less than half of that for the Industry to manufacture even after royalties,the rest is profit by the Companies and the record chains.


2.Release the Albums on the same day throughout the world.Sure you can't stop friends sharing and copying,but by the time an album is released in the USA or anywhere else it's already been illegally copied or downloaded elsewhere in the world where its not released,one or more less original copies that will sell



I always prefer the physical product and many people do,but why should we have to pay 10 times as much just for essentially some poncy artwork,to download a track from itunes cost you literally a tenth of it,this doesn't combat piracy,whilst they may put digital encoding onto a track to stop it being copied to other sources those with the correct technology can get round it,all it does it cut out the Middleman with distribution and logisitical costs,so the artist suffers even more because the consumer has more control over what he buys instead of buying an album with 10 or 11 tracks or more,they can pick and choose which they want,which given most people probably won't buy the full album,the reocrd company still takes there Percentage cut,they just don't have to outlay so much with Distribution or artwork,so its pretty Much a wider profit margin for them

[ILIAS]

if they realy paid 200.000 J = 350.000 $ : Jarre would need to sell some 100.000 copies to make such profits. He didn't sell as much, but he will make 100.000 copies' money selling 2 700 000 ... that's how I understand. Ofcourse he will make some kind of promotion to himself too. The other question how much of the money went to IME and how much to artist himself. If he got less than 200.000 (or about 1/2 of total) then I think everything this was not woth for JMJ; for EMI - yes.

[Jakob BC]

It's typical that they blame digital downloads, as this was also kind of a method to stop illegal downloading, a subject they were also whining about. No matter what I always prefer the physical product.

I'm glad that Illegal file sharing and downloading came about,it was the wake up call that the Record industry needed,yet they still have done nothing Price wise to combat it,but still complain that they are having their profits eroded away,it doesn't affect the artists,they make relatively little outlay for what the Industry charges for your average Album.And by prosecuting certain individuals just makes them look even more like Greedy bastards,they need to look int othe way they deal,not the illegal activity going on.All this shite about having to charge higher for an album to cover there Losses is total tosh.

If the record industry wants to stop all this illegal activity,they need to do a few simple things...

1.Stop charging so much for an Album,average CD costs in excess of £15 in a standard Hight st chain yet supermarkets can sell then for less than £10,they still buy them from the same supplier so why the Higher price elsewhere,yet a supermarket would shift less copies,so it can't be down to bulk buying on the supermarkets behalf that they can sell them cheaper its all about Price fixing and ripping off the consumer,the main Music chains have a lot to answer for as well as the Record companies,its these people who are damaging the artsits Bank account not the Illegal downloaders/Sharing,if the average album was about half the price More people would probably buy the Physical product,it costs pretty much less than half of that for the Industry to manufacture even after royalties,the rest is profit by the Companies and the record chains.


2.Release the Albums on the same day throughtout the world.Sure you can't stop friends sharing and copying,but by the time an album is released in the USA or anywhere else it already been illegally copied or downloaded elsewhere in the world where its not released



I always prefer the physical product and many people do,but why should we have to pay 10 times as much just for essentially some poncy artwork,to download a track from itunes cost you literally a tenth of it,this doesn't combat piracy,whilst they may put digital encoding onto a track to stop it being copied to other sources those with the correct technology can get round it,all it does it cut out the Middleman with distribution and logisitical costs,so the artist suffers even more because the consumer has more control over what he buys instead of buying an album with 10 or 11 tracks or more,they can pick and choose which they want,which given most people probably won't buy the full album,the reocrd company still takes there Percentage cut,they just don't have to outlay so much with Distribution or artwork,so its pretty Much a wider profit margin for them

Hmm I just re-read my last post but I couldn't understand what I actually wrote
Anyway yes the record business is too passive and that's their own problem. I don't remember they actually did anything to fight the p2p sharing, or the download business. That the price for a CD is too high is like an echo in my ear. I don't know how often I have heard that, but they will probably never do anything about it.
Digital downloads will always be the cheapest solution, as you don't need machines or people to handle the production of a CD, they produce the same amount as they sell, no storerooms etc.

My opinion is just that they should have reacted long time ago instead of whining about their business going down.

[Equinoxe]

My opinion is just that they should have reacted long time ago instead of whining about their business going down.

They didn't do anything because they simply were raking in too much money to worry about it,same with any Business they only start tightening the Purse strings when the Business doesn't do well financially,because there were no alternatives at the time,people had to buy the Originals and those with the Luxury of a cd duplicating machine were few and far between,now with the advances in technology and the Internet it's given the Record companies a big Kick in the Bollocks and hit hard on their Pockets and they're now trying to shut the stable door after the Horse has bolted.Infact a by product of their Greed in the first Place.

[moviemaker]

Last year Tower Records closed all it's stores except for one store on Sunset Boulevard which is more of an outlet store. Just last week, Virgin Megastore announced it was closing it's remaining store on Sunset Boulevard. This was a HUGE 3-Level store at the corner of Sunset and Laurel Canyon (Last Year they closed the Virgin Megstore in Burbank)--I think Virgin Megastore was bought out by another company in the UK??? The only store available to buy CDs are Best Buy (Selection like Blockbuster--only the latest or most popular--no Jarre), Target (less selection than Best buy, and Borders/Barnes & nobles bookstores (both have more selection but at an avergage of $16.99 - $19.99 for a single CD.

Jarre, Vangelis, Soundtracks and Classical (w/ some odds and ends like rare 1940's music, etc) are the only music I have as a hard copy (i.e. CD). The rest of my collection comprising of 408.25 GB of hard drive space is all digital files (the rest all sold on eBay). I can't remember the last time I actually inserted a CD into a device. The CD is all but dead (apart from the collecting aspect) and part of this is because of the high cost of CDs but also the ease of digital distribution. Jarre is still near impossible to get in the States--Vangelis, much easier but everything else is not worth the price of shipping, import fees, etc. Cds are not going to improve. If they are (HD 7.1 surround whatever) that boat has sailed--an opportunity missed, and one the movie studios see right now as a short term money grabber with Blu-Ray.

I agree, Record companies are much too late entering into the new business model of digital distribution. They would rather pretend like it was the same old song (Sorry Four Tops) and charge the same prices as a regular CD and with DRM. They are just now releasing music DRM free but many songs still at a just OK bit rate and the selection is still pretty limited.

I get better quality stuff (flac, 320kb, etc) downloading via XTorrent so that's where I'll go until they can offer equal quality at a decent price. I have bought a few downloads from Amazon because at least they offer mp3, DRM free and they seem to have a better selection of more obscure titles than iTunes and I'm a MAC person...

Now I'm startingt o do the same with movies. Sell what I don't watch on eBay (but keep a hard drive of the digital files) and replace what I want to keep in my collection on Blu-Ray (This is still a work in progress as Blu-Rays are still slow to replace my DVD titles). The digital files I can stream using Apple TV or g-Tech hard drive wirelessly to my TV or Mac and watch.


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Invisible Connections ~ THE VANGELIS FORUM
http://www.vangelis.free.fr/
U.S. Moderator

[Equinoxe]

Last year Tower Records closed all it's stores except for one store on Sunset Boulevard which is more of an outlet store--I think Virgin Megastore was bought out by another company in the UK???

There used to be a Tower Records in Birmingham(UK) which was pretty well stocked for most things I often got most of my Music and Books as they were like a Treasure trove of Music reference books too.Far better than any Virgin or HMV store Sadly that shut down too some years ago.There used to also be an independant Record chain called "Spin-a-Disc too they had shops in northampton and Coventry they were a really good shop for some of the more abstract records,and they always had a great selection Of jarre stuff,I got a Picture Disc 12"Interview from there and a whole host of TD and Vangelis as well as some of the More unknown genres,sadly that shop is now gone in Coventry and Ikea Furniture's secondary shop stands there today,All of that nostalgia and enjoyment of Music and being a collector has gone now everythings all Done over the net,cutting out that interaction with the Shop owners and workers I got to know many great people through buying stuff al lthe time Also got to know a guy who worked in there who was a massive Jarre fan,funnily enough I bumped into him at EIC in Wembley,of all the People there I meet someone who lived in the same place as Me!!How random is that


Virgin has now changed to Zawi..Last time went in was to buy Oxygene LIYLR and the Remaster CD,and even then they only had 2 copies of each on the shelves

I think in a few more years time,most of the record shops will have all but closed everything will be Mail order via the Net,if you go into most of the main Music chains like Virgin/HMV they only tend to stock minimal albums,being mroe of the mainstream pop stuff,,and most of whats taking up the shelves tends to be DVDs and Games now,whereas years ago you had all Vinyl,tapes and Minimal CDs(Now I'm showing my age )


Its a shame cos I used to love going to my Local shop or travelling to Brum and coming back with Loads of Vinyl getting to know the staff in the shop and talking Bollocks(Yes I'm good at that thanks Android ) about records for hours,it was part of the Fun of buying and collecting I used to buy on average about 10 or so records a week at one point Which is now close to 3500 Vinyl Records in my collection now I enjoy checking out the second hand Shops for Vinyl but even these are becoming a rarity now,due to most of the vinyl stuff getting sold on ebay now...


I agree the CD is dying because you cna compress a whole collection of cds into an MP3 player,but its like Vinyl,so long as there are devices to still play them they'll still be availible,albeit used by the more elite followers Like Djs with Vinyl but even the CD Deck DJ were prominent at one time,now you see many of them utilising twin MP3 players in the same way or a Laptop with a Massive amount of audio although I will say that CDs won't die out so Quickly like Vinyl did,but even so you can still get new Vinyl Albums as there is still a call for it.

But in years to come it will be pretty financially disatrous for up and coming artists unless they have some sort of Venture to sell their own Music from there own Website or domain,cutting out the need for a record label,Recording studios are becoming a dying breed too now you can record at home in your own studio setup,Plus the internet is a great media source,it gives you a wider Listening audience than any label and promotion could ever give you,it just cuts down the financial rewards,as your more or less giving your Music away.
The only financial rewards of being a musician now is in the Gigging side of things.Live music is a different kettle of fish to downloading a track people will pay good money to see Live acts,

[moviemaker]

It really is a shame because the USED RECORD STORE is how I discovered so many bands I may have otherwise passed on. You would look for an artist and the Used Record store owner (sometimes nice, most of the time a real smart-ass wanna-be guitarist in his garage band) would say hey that guy in that band used to play in this band, or if you like that band check out this, this and this... It was a great place of discovery.

I remember being a fan of The Fixx at one point and the guy at the Used Record store said to check out a real obscure Canadian band called Eight Seconds also produced by then Fixx producer Rupert Hines. It was an awesome album and only one of two they ever did. Many years later I find a CD used on Amazon for close to $60.00!!! because it's so rare but lo and behold I found a blog where a guy is praising this obscure band called Eight Seconds and offered the CD to download for free from his website at 320kbps because he thought it was a shame the CD had been deleted and wanted to share this great music with everyone. This is just one example.

I guess that Used Record Store still sort of exists in the form of music forums, etc. but there was something very precious and tactile about the experience. It was before the onslaught of Starbucks and the like. Now if you could combine Starbucks and a Used Record shop sort of place where you could download stuff on the fly maybe that might work--still will never be the same.


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Invisible Connections ~ THE VANGELIS FORUM
http://www.vangelis.free.fr/
U.S. Moderator

[Petr]

It´s not about the music industry only.

In Czech Republic is prepared around 2 - 3 DVDs per week (!!!) as a part of some newspapers. DVDs with very good film quality (Twin Peaks; Hanibal; Scent of Woman; Lord of War; Highlander; Prime; Last Temptation of the Christ; Fantomas serie; Valmont etc.).

The price incl. magazine or newspaper is around 1,9 - 2,2 EUR. Printing is around 200 000 pieces (Selling appr. 100 000) . Owner of the DVD title receive around 0,5 - 1,0 EUR per piece. Total income is appr. 50 000 - 100 000 EUR.

"Typical" price of the DVDs (new and older films) in music and film shops is around 15 - 20 EUR. Total sales are around 1000 pieces only!!! It means owner of the DVD title receive around 10 - 15 EUR per item. Total income is appr. 10 000 - 15 000 EUR.

[Jon]

Last year Tower Records closed all it's stores except for one store on Sunset Boulevard which is more of an outlet store--I think Virgin Megastore was bought out by another company in the UK???

There used to be a Tower Records in Birmingham(UK) which was pretty well stocked for most things I often got most of my Music and Books as they were like a Treasure trove of Music reference books too.Far better than any Virgin or HMV store Sadly that shut down too some years ago.

That brings back some memories. I used to go into Towers in Brum every second weekend (I'm only 20 miles from Brum) They use to have a nice selction of imports.