BlahBlahCafe - Jean-Michel Jarre forum

Hey,

Because it'll be easier to speak about it on a thread, here is the thread
How do you think I can record parts for a track which will be in 5.1 ?
I have Sony Vegas, Cakewalk Sonar 5, but I'm used to use Goldwave to record parts.

I don't have any idea how I can do that, do you have some ?

Regards,
Nicolas

Eeeh, I know that Cubase SX has a surround mixing function. I dunno from the other programs. (But I'm sure I'll learn that on my study :mryellow: )

Well first off you need a 5:1 capable sound card(with 6 individual outs)!!!!and also a monitor reference setup designed for 5:1 (Or some surround sound H/Phones)

Recording parts is the same as conventional stereo/mono recording,you can record parts in stereo or mono and then the placement for 5:1 is down in the Mixing stage,there is no special method for the actual recording process,its the Mixing stage that you need to focus on,but you also need a sequencer software that is capable of producing tracks in surround

These make the 6 individual mono audio files (standard 16/44.1 MONO .wav files will work) from your source tracks. This application needs to have a surround panner, which can route the source track to the 6 outputs.

Surround encoder (these are now available as software, that's the joy) An example is Sonic foundry's AC3 plugin, which works in ACID4 and Vegas4. Also, Steinberg has released an AC-3 encoder for Nuendo Details


Surround Decoder to playback DVDs (a home hi fi surround receiver works, ideally it needs to have either 5 analog DVD inputs or a digital input (coax or optical, whatever your DVD player has).


All you have different from conventional stereo is a wider panoramic scale to work with,so you can actually re mix some existing tracks you may have done in the past(providing you still have the seperate individual audio tracks) and create a 5:1 mix as there is no specialist way for the recording process in 5:1 its just the same process as normal stereo recording

The Yamaha 02R Desk I have has surround sound capabilities,I haven't used it to full effect as of yet,but its certainly interesting,Plus there are a lot of preset templates for the Pans which creates some interesting effects and give you a starting reference..

I may utilise it in the distant future,as I don't need any special or extra hardware,as the 02R actually has the outputs to each speaker direct as Outs on the back panel,so its just a case of hooking up some extra monitors and a subwoofer and away you go

That can be handy if you wanna hear what you do

It's quite an annoying process, but that's just my opinion
sorry for disturbing.

Well disturbing or not, you are right. I've only tried to mix in surround once, and it was not way as much fun as mixing in stereo

I was waiting for AMR to kick in here... At least I remember he was doing some of his stuff in surround, and I am sure he has the knowledge to comment on this topic

Nico_Noyau wrote:Hey,

Because it'll be easier to speak about it on a thread, here is the thread
How do you think I can record parts for a track which will be in 5.1 ?
I have Sony Vegas, Cakewalk Sonar 5, but I'm used to use Goldwave to record parts.

I don't have any idea how I can do that, do you have some ?

Regards,
Nicolas

You can use in Acid Pro and set separate panning for each track

Thanks for your reviews, but what if I want to have more than one track in one channel and a track going from one channel to an other ?
An evolving sound so !

Then you have to mix every channel separately

Thanks Equinoxe for your answer

On my laptop, there is a jack on which is written "SPDIF" and there is a red light inside the connector (my soundcard is an AC'97)
I have too an amp which has DTS and surround sound in 5.1 with coax in and optical in.

Do I need to change my material or not ? Because I don't especially want to spend too much money on that...
Or maybe I can use a surround headphone ?

Jarp2600 wrote:Then you have to mix every channel separately

Oh, that's not a problem by itself so, I can do that
But the problem is after, how to make a track being a channel

Nico_Noyau wrote:Thanks Equinoxe for your answer

On my laptop, there is a jack on which is written "SPDIF" and there is a red light inside the connector (my soundcard is an AC'97)
I have too an amp which has DTS and surround sound in 5.1 with coax in and optical in.

Do I need to change my material or not ? Because I don't especially want to spend too much money on that...
Or maybe I can use a surround headphone ?

S/PDIF (Sony/Philips Digital Interface Format)


S/PDIF is primarily used with CD players (and DVD players playing CDs), but has become common on other audio components like MiniDiscs, modern computer audio cards and especially european Digital Video Broadcast receivers (both satellite and terrestrial). It is also popular in car audio, where a large amount of wiring can be replaced with a single fiber optic cable, which is immune to electrical noise.I have a couple of devices which have the lightpipe connection(Korg Triton EX and D16XD both have S/pdif)

Another common use for the S/PDIF interface is to carry compressed digital AUDIO



S/PDIF is used to transmit digital signals of a number of formats, the most common being the 48 kHz sample rate format used in DAT, and the 44.1 kHz format used in CD audio. In order to support both systems, as well as others that might be needed, the format has no defined data rate. Instead the data is sent using Biphase Mark Code, which has either one or two transitions for every bit, allowing the original word clock to be extracted from the signal itself.

S/PDIF and ADAT are very similar except that ADAT carries 8 Audio signals,down the Cable whereas S/PDIF carries 2


heres the connections




Basically the audio is sent via Fibre optic cables to the receiving deivce,(converted as a light source,hence the name Lightpipe)if you plug a cable into the connectors the tip of the cable will glow..


If you have a device which has those connections then you can send audio from it direct to your PC,its a far better way of recording Audio as the signal is cleaner,although somewhat more compressed,but you get a better signal


I use the SPDIF on my triton to record the Audio from that into my DAW,as its a far better signal than conventional Jack inputs,I also use the ADAT format to transform the Analog signals form my Mixer inputs to convert it to digital to stream to the D16XD,you dont have to worry about noice overspill then



On the soundcard front,I'm not sure of the availibilty of 5:1 capable cards for laptops,I would imagine there gonna be pretty expensive for a decent sounding one given the commodity of it,plus I doubt you could just get away with buying a set of surround H/Phones and using your standard Card,as surely there needs to be some conversion to the 5:1 mode..Hmm..not quite sure on that.

I really can't record in SPDIF as my synths don't have that.

Equinoxe wrote:S/PDIF and ADAT are very similar except that ADAT carries 8 Audio signals,down the Cable whereas S/PDIF carries 2

Okay, but you are saying that SPDIF has only 2 channels ?!
Does that mean that my DVD player connected to my amp with an SPDIF cable (optical) only has 2 channel ?!

On the soundcard front,I'm not sure of the availibilty of 5:1 capable cards for laptops,I would imagine there gonna be pretty expensive for a decent sounding one given the commodity of it,plus I doubt you could just get away with buying a set of surround H/Phones and using your standard Card,as surely there needs to be some conversion to the 5:1 mode..Hmm..not quite sure on that.

If I really can't with my laptop, I have a desktop computer which has a M-Audio 24/96 which has SPDIF in/out, but my 5.1 system is not in this room, so I need to move it or to find a cheap 5.1 amp' (as I already have speakers)
But I can't buy expensive things now, I have to find a cheap way to do that...


I can mix my channel separately and then, to test it, burn it on DVD to try on my DVD player, it'll be longer but cheaper ! Nops ?

Nico_Noyau wrote:Thanks for your reviews, but what if I want to have more than one track in one channel and a track going from one channel to an other ?
An evolving sound so !

Well I dont think having multiple tracks in the same area would work as well as you'd like as there'd be some inbalance to the rest of the pan given the larger width you have to play with.
Most conventional Surround Mixing that I've listened to tends to use placement like normal stereo,with things like Bass/ main driving Drums kept pretty central and then the rest of the tracks are either hard panned to a speaker or swept around,

If you listen to Jarre's take on some mixes on AERO there is that Inbalance,on some tracks ,whereas Jarre has pretty much all elements moving into different areas,which doesn't work to well on some tracks with driving drums parts

Jarres Music works well in surround because of the elements to his music,which are begging to be be swept around,and mainly of his early use of 3D type imagining on his older Albums they convert well in most cases,so having that larger width to play with creates more depth to them but I still think he needs to research more into Surround techniques(I'm no expert)but having the main drums panned around whilst other elements are moving too creates a very unbalanced sound,theres far too much movement and some tracks are wimpy sounding..Just listen to the difference of the SACD and how they convert well