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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:07 pm
by Nico_Noyau
Cars represents 6% of the gaz sent, 20% for the coal power-stations...
I heard that on radio this morning ;)

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:15 pm
by GeeJee
Well, what can we do.
I feel we are on a big ocean liner and a few people of the staff call for the ship to slow down, but not all of the staff agrees, so if they'd even agree it will take quite a while for the liner to have actually reduced its speed...

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:24 pm
by Jakob BC
As the analysts say: "Just a small thing makes a difference". Nothing changes if everybody said "They don't do it so why should I?" but that is not an excuse, if just everyone thinking like that would keep off the bandwagon, it would make a difference but that is also what campaigns are trying to do. When I enter the busses in my city, a sign from a company says "thanks for using the bus instead of the car".

@Gee - sorry but I don't like those kind of stories after hearing a similar story about taxes and welfare :punch:

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:12 pm
by AnDrOiD
I thought GeeJee would be more interested in saving the planet, as supposedly God created it? :roll:

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:43 pm
by GeeJee
Don't go there.

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:33 pm
by Equinoxe
Jarp2600 wrote:Maybe my opinion differs a little from the most ppl, but I actually think that Global Warming is the biggest fairytale humans told themselves....
I agree with you 100%,the earth has been going through a Cyclic motion in terms of cooling and Heating since the beginning of time its a natural phenomenon,Thats why we Have seasonal Weather,no matter what we do in terms of pollution you can't stop or slow it down,the earth was covered at one time in water,hence why we have gone through Ice ages and Warming stages,movements in the Earths core and chagning climates forced the plates to move thus forming land barrages,and eventually continents,this is still happening in the polar Ice caps,its not because of global warming,the Polar is melting because of the constant battering of water against the Ice surface.

The simple fact is that the Ice caps are being eroded away not melting from "Supposed" rising temperatures caused by Mans Pollution,we are far more Pollution conscious and far cleaner now than many decades ago,the more something is battered with water the more it shrinks,you only have to look at coastline rocks to see that.
Ice is not as strong as sedimetary rock as its more susceptible to the elements,they won't stand the Force of the water for as long as rockfaces,if the world was heating up in such a way that scientist have us beleive then most of it would have dissapeared a long time ago,the simple fact is there are still thousands of mile of floating icebergs,most of which have been broken away from larger chunks this then reduces there strength so this again adds to what the statistics show that the ice is melting,ever wondered where the Pebbles on a beach come from.....the larger coastline rocks being eroded over milions of years,and the seawater beating against them to wear them into small pieces,this is what happens to the Ice not Rising temperatures,this is how Continents were formed,they weren't just pushed up out of the water,they were possibly one large land mass and the earth movements climate change and water barrage created continents by forcing the land apart

Water levels will rise for sure,but the world was once covered in Water,so all this scaremongering about land dissapearing is only how the Earth once was before Land began to form millions of years ago,the earth is merely returning to a natural state its not Armageddon and its certainly not being forced upon early by our Pollution methods,its gonna happen regardless,when the water levels rise,many countries will be under threat of sever floods,and perhaps even gone forever,but the larger continents will invairbaly become combined over Millions of years,there are plenty of places in the world now that are pretty much uninhabited now this will only become more prominent in other places once well populated,Mankind as a species will have possibly long since become extinct by this stage.

When water freezes it expands,so a few thousand Miles of ice is going to make a difference to Water volume due to Natural Climate changes and the water eroding it away,its not because of Pollution,the trouble is that most of the statistics and ideologies that we hear about are through Government funded scientific research,where because the Research is not independantly done,the Government and politicians can tell you pretty much all they want,without fear of reprisal,its kind of like a Conspiracy theory.the same as the fact they dictate that we should smoke less so we live longer,yet what they don't tell you that is if we all live longer through giving up smoking,we all pay a larger price in taxation to keep those people who live longer in pensions because of not smoking and suffering premature deaths.

If Pollution is such a problem,then the governments and world organisations would do far more to irradicate the problems,there is far more that they could do,but really have minimal resources to prove to us that the statisitcs are gospel,because they can simply hide behind the Scientists whom they fund and most are pretty reluctant to contest the true insight into the Real reason behind climate changes,little is actually done in terms of real progress,they have us beleive that we should use less energy,use the car less,recycle more,but in what vein....Nothing but a means to taxation,If they really want to make a difference they need to target Large companies and corporations who make less of an effort to reduce pollution and waste energy,your told to switch off your lights when your not in the room,but how many corporate building do you pass with there light and computers left on all night long when the place is vacant,or offices that have Air con units circulating all day???

Methane is a larger polluter and a more deadly Gas than C02,any living organism emmits Methane,this has been polluting the air since the beggining of time,yet they don't tell you of the effects of it because simply there is no way to tax you,if the governments had their way no doubt they'd be slapping a tax on Flatulating in public places,all of these Landfill areas that produce large Quantities of Methane are a sitting timebomb,and are more of a threat to Pollution in the large Volumes that we're creating,we would create far less Toxins by Incinerating most of it,the heat energy from the Incineration process could then be used for other uses,the sad fact is the Goverments couldn't tax you if they incernerated most of the wastage,we're taxed(In the UK at least, because there is a Taxation on what is allowed to be dumped in landfill areas,Because it has to be handled differently.the Recycling process is also a further area in which they considerably tax you but hide behind the "recycle" tag,because most waste is filtered prior to it being dumped or burnt at the waste units,by getting the General House holder to sort it means spending less of your taxation to do it themselves,yet they never give you a reduction in costs.Most countries have a higher degree of recycling ethic,but also a lower cost of Amenities and services.


The earth is precious,we should all do our bit to use that little less energy,but the issue is not doing our best,because most people are trying to recycle more and use the car less(well I do)but recycling is something that we should do irrespective of global warming it reduces costs not just energy wastage and I cycle a lot any way for my own health benefits,but the simple fact is that there isn't enough evidence to prove that what we're doing is killing the planet,its a sheer fact that we as Humans are destined like any species to finally become extinct,its a matter of survival of the fittest and if we ever see a further Ice age like the earth once was encaptulated with,this is when the Survival nature comes into play,most of the Species that ever died out was down to its lack of survival either through hunted issues or just lack of Food source for them to survive,we as Human have far more intellect to become extinct through those sorts of Problems just look at some of the most unihabited places in the world,some Desserts some snow infested,we have technology which aids us and helps us to understand diseases,and we most certainly in the western world have no real threat of famine.


these Once water infested places are not dissapating and becoming desserts because of Pollution,the Area in which the water once was has been evaporated by the Sun,but the rainfall is no longer falling in the places where the lakes were so eventually the lakes will dry out if there not being replenished in the same volumes,but the water must fall somewhere and thats why certain areas of the world have seen larger occurences of Flood effect,Water is the one true renewable source,you can heat it freeze it consume it,but its still renewable,again and again it just shifts its form due to condtions in which its consumed,those occurences are not caused by Pollution.,if that was the case every polluting country in the world would be suffering the effects.

The earth was covered in water so these places had water in abundance throughout the course of history,the natural change of the earths climate shifted those areas to become dessert,due to lack of rain fall I suspect that certain areas in the world will become like this in many centuries in the future that were once well watered,so to speak.the Ice caps are melting causing sea levels to rise...then these Nomadic Lakes and places once filled with water will see water once again.if the Climate cycles,Sadly many people don't look at the real issues,they're just fed a load of sacrilige and doom.

We were once told that CFC's were causing the Ozone layer to break and that several areas were irrepairable,and in years to come those area's affected would be pretty much unhabitable and skin cancer would be a massive issue due to the sun's harmful rays not beng filtered,now scientists tell us that the Ozone has repaired or is reparing itself????

Global warming is a natural occurence of the earths climate not through mans destruction,I'm all for doing my bit to help reduce energy,but its not gonna save the planet or the future of the Next generation,that will be down to survival instincts,we have shown that we can survive in extreme weather conditions,The earths climate is changing and no matter how much you do your bit it won't change a thing,we will only survive through Knowledge not a Simple ideology of taxing you to save energy,and I'm afraid I'm not prepared to listen to government statistics telling me why I should be taxed to death at the expense of a little bit of scaremongering.

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:27 pm
by Velodynamic
My father has told me many times that some year in the middle 60's the apple trees stod in their full bloom at christmas evening. In 1973 ppl still had to shovel snow in late June in the middle of the summer.
It has never happen before or after that, but the weather is and has always been unpredictable.

"In 2030 you can travel by boat across the North Pole" and the sea level will rise this and that many meters when the South Pole has melted away and all the animals will die -well, no kidding? :roll: What does it matters when in some 100 years half of our globe will be covered in 10-20 meter thick layer of ice because the oceans gulf stream that's keep pumping warm and cold water has stopped working? We have been able to physically messuring temperatures for how long? Maybe some 100 years but scientists are talking about climates 10 million years ago based on some certain patterns in the ice or checking out what the soil looks like. And that is enough proof the earth are getting warmer?? Just remember one thing...it's all calculations and predictions. :wink:

The same predictions that said our modern society would collaps because of a millenium bug in our computers and all our computer controlled machines and vehicles would stop working. What happened? Nothing.
But there was spent billions of dollars on this issue and many new jobs was created because of this "nothing".
People in the west world are shouting in fear about the sea levels for only one reason, our big cities and homes have never been built this close to the sea level before. Before we knew anything about daming technique our homes were build at high places.
I'm having trouble to fully buying the whole story about the green house effect aswell.
Heat keeps rising upwards. Cool keeps falling downwards. It's a proven physical fact and it has always been working like that. Doomsday prophets has always been walking around our world to spread fear among humans. The only difference are their costumes.

But there is indeed more reasons than the climate to reduce our air polluting...we're dying in cancer from it. That is what will happen in China if everybody there will be starting new polluting cars...and that is my own calculated prediction.

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:41 pm
by Robi
You shouldn't take after millenium bug and global warming.
Global warming has been prooved, statistically and experiencing the extremity on the Earth , at several places.

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:46 pm
by Velodynamic
Robi wrote:You shouldn't take after millenium bug and global warming.
Global warming has been prooved, statistically and experiencing the extremity on the Earth , at several places.
Ok, but how? We're talking about what will happen in 20-30 years here. Is the time machine already invented?

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:53 pm
by Robi
OK, million years ago there were catastrophe by volcanos, destroying forests and other things , which effected the Earth. But these were before the people and nature was able to survive it's catastrophe.

But today the man just waste the sources and meantime he pollute the nature. And the Earth is not prepaired on this !

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:27 pm
by Jakob BC
The problem with the politicians in this century is that votes instead of princips are most important, so nobody wants to raise the energy- and cartaxes.

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:56 pm
by Equinoxe
Robi wrote:You shouldn't take after millenium bug and global warming.
Global warming has been prooved, statistically and experiencing the extremity on the Earth , at several places.

Really???So do you know anywhere I can read about the Last cyclic Climate change to Know of the catastrophic effects which were infused early from man made emissions.... We're still partly in an iceage
How can pollution have been such a huge factor in a Natural Earth Cycle from C02 ommisions the car is only less than 200 years old????if this climate does not suffer a cyclic pattern how can you assume that we are suffering from a Problem caused by pollution now.there is no real evidence to show you the effects caused by pollution there is no scientific History to back it up???which would suggest there is also no evidence to prove it.

All we are told is that the seasons are changing due to pollution/Global warming its total fabrication,how can the recording of time be compared to the seasons,Time and seasons are only mans way of identifiying our way of life and dividing the years,we don't alter the climate of the earth from our Dwelling here,we have allsorts of types of weather in seasons where it wouldn't normally be considered the typical condition.,so every instance is "predicted" thats it down to Pollution and Man??Don't think so..

How can we be sure that the recording of seasons and Time was implemented exact when the methods first began,Time is only a way of partioning our life,time means different things to different people some it seems fast some it goes slow,that just proves thats its relative to your own persona and not a global system and so are the seasons,its not the like Earth has a global clock inside it core,Like any organism it has an energy base that shifts and changes throughout it lifecycle,which shifts it form from time to time....Our Climate shifts in any way like the weather changes through the month,Its determined by the sun and the galaxies and solar system and not Pollution.

All we have are weather records which in most cases only really date back to the 17th-18th centuries..we've had more worse extreme weather conditions in decades and centuries way before Cars or energy wastage and pollution were ever an issue,so is this down to global warming from pollution..I doubt very much...

Read my previous post...Don't just watch things like that shitty documentary presented by Al Gore,the man who failed to become president of the USA....Take that mans word he's seriously telling the truth about global warming yet resides in a Nice big house and drives round is gas guzzling cars and jets around the world in his private Jet,plus he didn't tell you the astronomical costs to make that film that could have funded research into climate change or the wonderful spectacle that was "Live Earth" a cause dedicated to raise awareness of climate change and Pollution effects,so they jet several artists across the Globe and waste copius amounts of energy to stage those Gigs.....and they want everyone else to be less selfish with regards to energy usage.

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:04 pm
by Equinoxe
Robi wrote:You shouldn't take after millenium bug and global warming.
Global warming has been prooved, statistically and experiencing the extremity on the Earth , at several places.

Probably by the same people who told us in the 1400's if you sailed across the ocean you'd fall off the edge of the world

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:13 pm
by Equinoxe
Velodynamic wrote:My father has told me many times that some year in the middle 60's the apple trees stod in their full bloom at christmas evening. In 1973 ppl still had to shovel snow in late June in the middle of the summer.
It has never happen before or after that, but the weather is and has always been unpredictable.

"In 2030 you can travel by boat across the North Pole" and the sea level will rise this and that many meters when the South Pole has melted away and all the animals will die -well, no kidding? :roll: What does it matters when in some 100 years half of our globe will be covered in 10-20 meter thick layer of ice because the oceans gulf stream that's keep pumping warm and cold water has stopped working? We have been able to physically messuring temperatures for how long? Maybe some 100 years but scientists are talking about climates 10 million years ago based on some certain patterns in the ice or checking out what the soil looks like. And that is enough proof the earth are getting warmer?? Just remember one thing...it's all calculations and predictions. :wink:

The same predictions that said our modern society would collaps because of a millenium bug in our computers and all our computer controlled machines and vehicles would stop working. What happened? Nothing.
But there was spent billions of dollars on this issue and many new jobs was created because of this "nothing".
People in the west world are shouting in fear about the sea levels for only one reason, our big cities and homes have never been built this close to the sea level before. Before we knew anything about daming technique our homes were build at high places.
I'm having trouble to fully buying the whole story about the green house effect aswell.
Heat keeps rising upwards. Cool keeps falling downwards. It's a proven physical fact and it has always been working like that. Doomsday prophets has always been walking around our world to spread fear around humans. The only difference is their costumes.

But there is indeed more reasons than the climate to reduce our air polluting...we're dying in cancer from it. That is what will happen in China if everybody there will be starting new polluting cars...and that is my own calculated prediction.
At least someones on the same Wavelength...

Your last paragraph is pretty rock solid,we as a species are destined to problems relating to our lifestyles,Like I said before its about the Survival of the fittest,we're told that Weather will change resulting in doom and gloom,from rising temperatures,the fact of the matter is that there are already people Living in these types of extreme weather, that have done for millions of years they just adapted to survive,so what if areas are drying up of water or there becoming more flooded,we evolve as a species and learn to adapt,or we simply become extinct.


Cancers are more prominent now because of the chemicals in which our diet is centred,we are poisoned by the things we eat,yet in small Quantities there harmless but over the years we are subjected to them this wil cause massive effects and predetermine your destiny,more people should be more aware of wha tthey intake,in the same way we're told chemicals pollute the atmosphere,they don't bang on about how the chemicals in out Food causes us Pollution over the years
the fantasy that we all have cancerous cell in our Bodies is myth,Cancers are growths which have to be triggered from something,if we had the cells present in everyone then we could irradicate them by genetic engineering,the simple fact is some dieseases are Hereditory,and these are bred into our genetic makeup,if that was not the case we would all die of cancer and Tumours.

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:23 pm
by Jakob BC
The Global warming is going too fast to be just another sign of another iceage. Besides that, the water from the sea can't bee the reason why the inner ice of Greenland is melting faster.
And now, flame me with some comments 8)