BlahBlahCafe - Jean-Michel Jarre forum

matt222 wrote:Glad you like the flute solo - difficult one to reproduce.

How long did you take to nail the right timbre?

Difficult to get it exactly right, ain't it?

Yes, and I'm not really satisfied with it yet.
I did it on the JP8000 and added a bit of white noise from one oscillator to give it some 'breath'. It's the exact notation that is tricky as it was played extremely freely. It also has some sort of trill or vibrato over certain notes.

When disecting songs I like to switch from cd to old, original cassettes and live versions - anything different that might have a slightly different mix that may illuminate certain elements better, but that flute is buried - even on Aero.

matt222 wrote:Yes, and I'm not really satisfied with it yet.
I did it on the JP8000 and added a bit of white noise from one oscillator to give it some 'breath'. It's the exact notation that is tricky as it was played extremely freely. It also has some sort of trill or vibrato over certain notes.

When disecting songs I like to switch from cd to old, original cassettes and live versions - anything different that might have a slightly different mix that may illuminate certain elements better, but that flute is buried - even on Aero.

I love it exactly because it is that buried in the mix, that's what makes it fit, and it only comes out to play (pun intended) when needed.

I've done some experimentation on Sytrus: http://www.sendspace.com/file/3t946t

You're right about the vibrato - was trying that out just today.

The other thing I noticed is that both this flute and the main lead on Oxygene 5 have a certain 'string' quality about them, they aren't just brass or wind like in quality.

Analog-Umph wrote:The other thing I noticed is that both this flute and the main lead on Oxygene 5 have a certain 'string' quality about them, they aren't just brass or wind like in quality.

The sound is a string timbre to me it doesn't resemble a flute or even have any flute characteristics,its more a softer type of slow attack mellow brass/string I did a version of the Oxy 5 string sound on the Andromeda,whilst slightly fine tuning it to make it more mellow in timbre,it seemed to sound almost the same as the sound utilised in Oxygene 2 with very little tweaking needed.

If so,this sound is direct off the Eminent,and is a string tab,Per Kristian was the first to discover the Tab used on the Eminent for Oxygene 5,so perhaps he used it on Part 2 also for this counter melody

Its also possible to shape this sound from the oxygene 4 Horn lead with a little filter and EG experimentation,so there maybe other sources in which he created this sound rather than directly off the Eminent.but its for sure a string sound.

Equinoxe wrote:

Analog-Umph wrote:The other thing I noticed is that both this flute and the main lead on Oxygene 5 have a certain 'string' quality about them, they aren't just brass or wind like in quality.

The sound is a string timbre to me it doesn't resemble a flute or even have any flute characteristics,its more a softer type of slow attack mellow brass/string I did a version of the Oxy 5 string sound on the Andromeda,whilst slightly fine tuning it to make it more mellow in timbre,it seemed to sound almost the same as the sound utilised in Oxygene 2 with very little tweaking needed.

If so,this sound is direct off the Eminent,and is a string tab,Per Kristian was the first to discover the Tab used on the Eminent for Oxygene 5,so perhaps he used it on Part 2 also for this counter melody

Its also possible to shape this sound from the oxygene 4 Horn lead with a little filter and EG experimentation,so there maybe other sources in which he created this sound rather than directly off the Eminent.but its for sure a string sound.

Thanks for that info Equinoxe.

I always say, go with your gut feeling

Is it possible to combine the organ flute or horn tabs with the strings tabs on the 310?

With the O5 lead, there is a certain nasal quality to the sound, I was working with a patch yesterday and for the longest while I had 2 OSC at full volume within the patch, which is wrong as it doesn't give you that nasal quality and esp. a certain airy quality between the notes when playing. It turns out that the dominant osc waveform is saw with pulse being about a third, that gives it that proper "classical" quality which that instrument always evokes.

Excellant cover of Oxy 2, Matt

Analog-Umph wrote:

Is it possible to combine the organ flute or horn tabs with the strings tabs on the 310

Not the Ensemble strings,as soon as you select the SE buttons(8' and 4')this overrides the Tab sounds for the Upper/Lower Manuals,however the Tabs do include a String sound which is a basic string timbre,nothing as lush as the SE,which you can combine with the rest of the Tab sounds

The Eminent manual has some pictures showing which Tabs to combine to create certain sounds.

In your opinion guys, what other sounds do you feel are the most difficult to replicate ? I reckon the oxy 4 RMI solo - what's your verdict on mine and where else do you think I might be failing? http://www.mattsynth.co.uk/jean-michel-jarre/

It's easy to get stuck in the middle of your own music and miss what others see as obvious.

matt222 wrote:In your opinion guys, what other sounds do you feel are the most difficult to replicate ? I reckon the oxy 4 RMI solo - what's your verdict on mine and where else do you think I might be failing? http://www.mattsynth.co.uk/jean-michel-jarre/

It's easy to get stuck in the middle of your own music and miss what others see as obvious.

The trouble is emulating the Modulation on the sound,the actual sound is like a Clavinet,but the filtering on the actual RMI is very difficult to emulate on a VA,Some of the Modulation is from the Flanger so it would be nice to hear the actual raw sound the best I got to it,IMO was the Korg Z1,I've tried on many of my synths,although close I was never happy with how they sounded,the Z1 seemed to do it convincingly to my ears.

With alot of Jarre's timbres he tended to rely more on stock sounds,so you can find a sound almost near in most synth banks and just simply edit to suit.

I find the E310 is a difficult one to emulate,due to its drifting chorus,and because of the constant LFO speed across the Key range even with sampling its hard to nail,I made a nice sound on the Andromeda,using some modulation to make the pitch slightly drift making the frequency of the oscillators slight out of beat,it was useful for Equinoxe 1,as it worked better at higher notes on the scale but never seemed to have the fullness of the majority of E310 applications in lower octaves,in which case I never worried too much as I've got the real thing.

I always say trust your ears,if it sounds right to you,chances are it does sound good,I'm very critical about things,so will always be picky about every detail,a lot of it is down to trial and error,although I did approach recreating Jarre sounds by writing down the characteristics of the sound,and tried to work by building up Patches based on sound characteristics/Harmonics from the ground up.

If you understand the basis of what types of oscillators or harmonics/Overtones make up certain sounds its fairly easy,it also helps to have an understanding of the synthesis/structure of the synth they came from,this helps greatly as you can gauge how it approaches sound shaping and work from that.

Equinoxe wrote:

Analog-Umph wrote:

Is it possible to combine the organ flute or horn tabs with the strings tabs on the 310

Not the Ensemble strings,as soon as you select the SE buttons(8' and 4')this overrides the Tab sounds for the Upper/Lower Manuals,however the Tabs do include a String sound which is a basic string timbre,nothing as lush as the SE,which you can combine with the rest of the Tab sounds

The Eminent manual has some pictures showing which Tabs to combine to create certain sounds.

Aha, how about using the orbitone chorus on the combined basic strings tab + horn tab

matt222 wrote:In your opinion guys, what other sounds do you feel are the most difficult to replicate ? I reckon the oxy 4 RMI solo - what's your verdict on mine and where else do you think I might be failing? http://www.mattsynth.co.uk/jean-michel-jarre/

It's easy to get stuck in the middle of your own music and miss what others see as obvious.

Well I've been playing around with that sound for a while, trying to nail it like everybody else, and there's a couple of things I've noticed.
Firstly so far everything that I've heard on covers and stuff sounds 'dry and weak' if that is any way to describes it, I could've used more vague euphemisms or gone the other way and been really detailed and critical about it, but imo the O4 Chorus lead is made combination of two sounds, at least on the album.

The RMI HS is capable of playing two different sounds at once, and in particular when it comes to that lead, there are a couple of things going on. Firstly why no one is managing to nail it is because they are thinking of it in terms of standard 'lead'. But if you notice on the album Jarre used alot of bell sounds - sure not as prominent as on Equinoxe 2 & 3, but bells and tinkles none the less. And for the most part not your classical definition of bells.

First on Oxygene 1, two different bells
Then on Oxygene 3 he uses the RMI for the right channel lead, which again sounds bell-ish in a way
Oxygene 4 - the darn lead
Oxygene 5 the bells and tinkes. And particularly here if you listen carefully to those bells, they have a very empty sounding timbre, that suggests square wave, or some of those custom waveforms (including the bell waveform) found on the RMI HS.

So to me the O4 lead sounds like a modulated square bell "the RMI way" played using both harmonic generators to fatten up the sound with detuning and I think that's why it sounds so bright and full-bodied in both octaves.

And that's the other thing, most of the recreations have far too many lower frequencies and very little up the top. It's important to eq that lead to achieve the right balance.

cover oxygene IV

RMI is emulated by D-550 with on one channel electric mistress, what do you think ?

E310 strings is not original, It's come from a standard string patch with small stone
but now I have a eminent 310 u 100% fonctionnal I tried again to recrod a second version with this instruments.

Brilliant, you guys really fill the thread with substance.

If you watch the 1990's Oxygene tour and Moscow videos, the oxy 4 'RMI' lead is apparantly played by Jarre on the Nordlead 2 - as is my solo. By memory, it sounds pretty spot-on. Are we therefore to assume it was programmed perfectly on the Nord or are we listening to a tape recording that he's miming to?

Also, Docklands , le Defense. Perfect replica solo again. Live synth or recording again. Notice on the original, the second bars first E-flat sounds different.

Why can't Jarre or one of his expert collaborators recreate the sound on the RMI today?

matt222 wrote: If you watch the 1990's Oxygene tour and Moscow videos, the oxy 4 'RMI' lead is apparantly played by Jarre on the Nordlead 2 - as is my solo. By memory, it sounds pretty spot-on. Are we therefore to assume it was programmed perfectly on the Nord or are we listening to a tape recording that he's miming to?

Wow way to hit 1997/1986 with this boring horse necrophilia "argument" again. Going off-topic in your own thread even

I guess the solo is pretty hard to recreate sound-wise but I'm more disappointed in people not making replicas of Oxygene 4 PLD version but I guess it's more about interest than difficulty

Regarding the RMI solo from the Oxygene Tour 1997, JMJ did have some dedicated sounds on the Nord Lead 2, but for the live show he did some overdubs with those. The volume during the RMI part was often turned down, so what you hear is the original tapes and not the Nord. The RMI sound he got on the Nord sounds quite different. You can hear it on some recordings from the tour, both as some kind of introduction before the track, but also as overdub of the original tapes at times.