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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:02 pm
by Nico_Noyau
Okokokok, so if I understood perfectly :
The 2xRCA input is not as good as the S/PDIF one ?
So, I have to buy something which can convert Analog to Digital so here is the A/D converter you spoke about
Nah, I'm too great, I'll dring a coca because of that
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:11 pm
by Nico_Noyau
Just found that :
ADAT : Alesis, TDIF : Tascam, et RBUS : Roland
I'll try to find more informations about it but it seems to be a mixer with 8 analogs inputs (4x stereo) and with an output as S/PDIF
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:12 pm
by Equinoxe
noyau wrote:Just found that :
ADAT : Alesis, TDIF : Tascam, et RBUS : Roland
I'll try to find more informations about it but it seems to be a mixer with 8 analogs inputs (4x stereo) and with an output as S/PDIF
You'll struggle to find a Mixer with S/PDIF or ADAT that won't cost you a small fortune
Most low end analogue mixers don't have such digital interfaces,the ADAT function is more a standard interface on Digital multiracks for interconnecting other ADAT devices... My Korg D16XD has both ADAT and S/PDIF which gives a total of 24 Inputs
the sort of mixer that would have ADAT or S/PDIF would be something like the Yamaha 01/or O2 mixers,most of these interfaces are avalible as upgrades,and not usually a standard option..
S/PDIF and ADAT are not the same so you cant hook up a ADAT device to S/PDIF inputs and vice versa
As for standard outs on the synth being 2, a lot of synths have multiple outs,my triton extreme has 8 outputs in total (2 main L/R Ind 1/2/3/4/SPDIF although the SPDIF is just a digital version of the main L/R
This gives you more flexibility in that you can route certian sequencer tracks to multiple outs kind of like a Mixer would use busses,most Korg workstations have a minimum of 4 outputs,so you could for instance route the drums to the main L/R and a bass sound to another output and a keyboard sound to another output,useful if you need to isolate and treat different sounds at once without being tied to one pair of outputs,extremely useful for multitrack recording
The D-50 has two mono channels......there not a stereo pair.....they are actually individual outs,just used as a stereo pair....Look at the livery on the connection jacks!!!
if you have ADAT on your soundcard you can buy a A/D converter which will convert analogue sources to ADAT format,the Behringer ADA8000 does this[/quote]
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:55 pm
by Nico_Noyau
Wouhou, Yamaha 01V is around 1000€ and the ADA8000 around 400€
It's not the end of the world if I just plug a mixer into the 2xRCA of my sound card, no ?
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:38 pm
by dj_epo
go to
www.thomann.de for good prices !!!
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:47 pm
by Nico_Noyau
Hum yes, but it is the price of 3 synths
(old ones
)
I'll try to find some mixers but a very very very old mixer is good to record something ?
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:04 pm
by AMR
noyau wrote:
I'll try to find some mixers but a very very very old mixer is good to record something ?
Age may rust or hurt mechanical contacts of knobs and sliders (and if it bothers, it's easy and cheap to replace), it may make it hard to get support (altough old-school analog is easy to "keep" if you know electronics), but age won't hurt the audio quality.
I had to replace all the Amp-Op's (integrated circuits, analog op-amps in a micro-chip) in my Roland VS because they sounded... er... less good than compatible more recent/slightçy expensive ones (less noise, less distortion), and were talking a digital mixing table here (and recording studio), but inputs anywhere are always analog.
You can tell the difference with my new amp's once dinamics are huge, trebles are rulling or the signal is very soft, and I think that neither Roland or anyone for that matter should ever cut even a dime on the pre-amp input stage... which means that even if you have a high-resolution sampler (VS is 20-24 bits), any kind of analog stage bad inputs simply means you'll sample all that glorious badness in high-resolution...
Very much like a having a Canon EOS2D mkII 16Mpxls photo-camera with bad lenses, or sampling a great tuned-by-specialist-engineer Steinway D in a great acoustic room with badly positioned cheap mics... waste of technology.
Kind Regards,
AMR
http://www.alvaromrocha.com
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:15 pm
by synthx
Just a short one:
Yes external A/Ds are a better choise than recording through the analog ins on the audiocard it self. In a computer there is a lot of stuff that creates problems with analogue signals. Even though the Creamware Pulsar 2 card is a high end product, it´s analogue inputs get affected by all the different electronic parts in the computer resulting in humming and buzzing noises. So recording through the digital ins on the card with an external A/D results in higher quality audio. The A/Ds I have now (Alesis AI3) are really cheap on the secondhand market.
And to clear things out:
A/D = Analog to digital converter.
ADAT = Multi tracking machine.
ADAT Interface = Has a number of analog inputs (Often 8 mono) and lightpipe or other digital output.
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:32 pm
by jeremy
noyau wrote:Wouhou, Yamaha 01V is around 1000€ and the ADA8000 around 400€
It's not the end of the world if I just plug a mixer into the 2xRCA of my sound card, no ?
Plug your D50 into your soundcard with a cable like this one:
Then, plug your D-50 on your M-Audio Midisport midi interface (if it's not done yet).
And it will be ok. Experiment recording some stuff and it should work. Then save some money, continue to make music and upgrade your set up when it's necessary. You don't need a mixer yet, believe me. Save your money and wait for the moment when you really need to upgrade.
I don't think an A/D (analog to digital) converter will be useful for the moment. I know someone who has recorded all his songs on a Soundblaster 64 with the internal A/D converter and when I listen to his stuff, the only things I could complain about are the composition and the mix (done on PC speakers), not the audio quality. It's all done in 16 bit / 44.1 kHz and it's really not bad.
(Sorry for the size of the picture)
What software do you have?
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:23 am
by Nico_Noyau
synthx wrote:The A/Ds I have now (Alesis AI3) are really cheap on the secondhand market.
And to clear things out:
A/D = Analog to digital converter.
ADAT = Multi tracking machine.
ADAT Interface = Has a number of analog inputs (Often 8 mono) and lightpipe or other digital output.
Alesis AI3 is 300€, a price of a synt
For now, I'll keep all asI have as Jeremy said :
jeremy wrote:Plug your D50 into your soundcard with a cable like this one:
Then, plug your D-50 on your M-Audio Midisport midi interface (if it's not done yet).
already done my dear, I already record my D50 with the M-Audio 24/96 with Goldwave and it sounds very good (try to listen my cover of Rev. Indus. and some demos I did with my D50)
For the MIDI, I plug my D50 into my M-Audio 24/96 and my MidiSport 1x1 USB and my PG1000 so I really need a Roland A880
jeremy wrote:And it will be ok. Experiment recording some stuff and it should work. Then save some money, continue to make music and upgrade your set up when it's necessary. You don't need a mixer yet, believe me. Save your money and wait for the moment when you really need to upgrade.
no problem, sure I don't need a mixer for now but this summer I'll work to win money and in May I'll buy the JP8000 so I began to think about which mixer to choose, but I'll do exactly what you said
jeremy wrote:I don't think an A/D (analog to digital) converter will be useful for the moment. I know someone who has recorded all his songs on a Soundblaster 64 with the internal A/D converter and when I listen to his stuff, the only things I could complain about are the composition and the mix (done on PC speakers), not the audio quality. It's all done in 16 bit / 44.1 kHz and it's really not bad.
I'll buy something like that when I'll have more and more synths to have a cleaner sound but for now, I have not a lot of money and I'll buy a JP8000
jeremy wrote:What software do you have?
I use as sequencer and vst host : Synapse Orion Platinum
I tried Reason but I don't like it too many, I can't host vst on it, a shame
And to answer AMR, I asked this question because Friday I'll go on a secondhand market and maybe they'll have some old synths or old mixer to sell at a very low price
Thanks to you all
Nicolas
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:43 pm
by Pete
noyau wrote:
already done my dear, I already record my D50 with the M-Audio 24/96 with Goldwave and it sounds very good (try to listen my cover of Rev. Indus. and some demos I did with my D50)
For the MIDI, I plug my D50 into my M-Audio 24/96 and my MidiSport 1x1 USB and my PG1000 so I really need a Roland A880
Nicolas
Hi Nico,
I woudn't reccomend you the Roland A-880. I own one and I have to say it's more a live/stage device than a computer sequencing tool these days.
It's a 1988 MIDI patchbay and you have to expect timing delays bigger than today's standards.
I would suggest instead a second hand MOTU MIDI Timepiece AV.
You may spend 200-250 EUR-if you are lucky-and you get an interface that can work as a computer 8x8 MIDI interface or a standalone MIDI 8x8 patchbay/merger.
The advantages are:
- Faster and more accurate timings
- One MIDI port I/O more than with the A-880 (Yes, if you connect the A-880 to the computer you have to do it using one MIDI port I/O, while with a MTP AV you use a USB cable...)
- An easier communication between your synths and the computer if you need to send Sys Ex banks in and out (... it's quite a hassle to let some synth editors work with a Roland A-880 between)
- MOTU drivers in my experience are very good also for PCs and with the MOTU ClockWork free software it's a breeze to program the Interface
As to the mixer discussion... why not a little second hand Mackie?
Here we talk about JMJ, and on the stage in his concerts you can easily spot mackie little mixers for premixing purposes (like the CR-1604 or 1604VLZ, or the the bigger SR24.4 at Bourges)
If you like to sequence your synths rather then to record them in a hard disk recording software, it's the quick way.
P.
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:37 pm
by Equinoxe
Pete wrote:noyau wrote:
I would suggest instead a second hand MOTU MIDI Timepiece AV.
You may spend 200-250 EUR-if you are lucky-and you get an interface that can work as a computer 8x8 MIDI interface or a standalone MIDI 8x8 patchbay/merger.
The advantages are:
- Faster and more accurate timings
- One MIDI port I/O more than with the A-880 (Yes, if you connect the A-880 to the computer you have to do it using one MIDI port I/O, while with a MTP AV you use a USB cable...)
- An easier communication between your synths and the computer if you need to send Sys Ex banks in and out (... it's quite a hassle to let some synth editors work with a Roland A-880 between)
- MOTU drivers in my experience are very good also for PCs and with the MOTU ClockWork free software it's a breeze to program the Interface
P.
Same with the M-audio Midisport 8X8 i use,its great cos it functions via USB in the studio plus for live work i use it as a Standalone patchbay,i've just bought my second one of these....so i keep one permantly in my studio and the other for live work...
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:06 pm
by jeremy
noyau wrote:
For the MIDI, I plug my D50 into my M-Audio 24/96 and my MidiSport 1x1 USB and my PG1000 so I really need a Roland A880
No you don't.
You can set the PG1000 so that the received midi data is sent to the D50 as well. This function is mainly used to trigger the D550 module with both a keyboard and a PG1000 (keyboard sending midi to PG1000, which merges the midi from the keyboard and the midi from the sliders).
Imagine... you'd have to disconnect the PG1000 and connect a keyboard everytime you want to know how your sound has evolved while you edit...
So you'd have:
D50 -> Midisport 1x1
Midisport 1x1 -> PG1000 -> D50
You need to buy less stuff that you think, really
PS. - Where can I hear your cover of Revolution?
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:43 am
by Nico_Noyau
About the MIDI patcher : I want to take under 80€ on it, that's why I choosed the A880, on which I can plug in addition other synths
The motu is really too expensive
jeremy :
http://forum.nk.free.fr/forum in the cover part
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:54 pm
by jeremy
OK I've found it
I'm listening right now (oxygene 2)